Official Appreciation Thread: WAR Marciano!!! A True Champion and ATG

It would be fantastic to hear an actual historian's take on it, but, as best I can tell quite a lot of boxing is more cyclical than progressive and what techniques are used has more to do with the audience watching them than their usefulness. So, for example early Greek boxing is rather similar to present day boxing. Soft gloves, four major championships, pretty strict ruling authority. The training facilities are very similar, heavybags, mits, coaches, shadow boxing, sparring ect. They even begin training as boys and teens and had amatuer and pro leagues. Then when it gets to the Roman period boxing becomes more brutal, less similar to present boxing and more similar to bare knuckle. The Romans had gloves that were weaponized similar to how American bare knuckle sometimes featured hardened gloved. The Romans allowed eye gouging and castration. The Greeks would have seen this as an affront to Apollo, but in the Chesapeake area of Virginia one of our earliest laws on record makes eye gouging and castration a felony about fifty years before the US rebels against the king because their honor duels featured a form of boxing that allowed eye gouging, castration, and even tongues being cut out. Also, the inclusion and exclusion or wrestling in boxing. For the Greeks there was none allowed. Boxing was a striking sport more similar to now. To the later Romans and bare knuckle era boxers a bit of wrestling is ok and expected in boxing. As far as gladiator drill goes, hit the nail on the head best I can tell. I don't know much about gladiator boxing because the gladiators were not as glorified as the olympic champions so there's a lot less history to look at with them and it's much more vague. That said, I can tell you the Spartans invented boxing for war. They felt like helmets were for women :lol1: Boxing was just a military practice to get their soldiers prepared for a battlefield without any helmets. Quick shields and swords don't need helmets. Eventually the sport evolved out of the Spartan training, but, since Spartans never surrender and the other Greeks thought it was bad sportsmanship the Spartans did not participate in the sport version of boxing and that's where you get the separation of sword play and sport. So, by the time swords fade in usefulness boxing had already been using their drills for a few millennia. The Europeans rediscover boxing during to renaissance but we fail to connect it to war or sword play until the 20th century. Long after modern boxing was already very popular and swordplay, or sword based warfare, had already become boring old history. Also Dambe claims a connection to ancient african shield and spear warfare, but, I know next to nothing about it. You ain't wrong bubba, I don't reckon anyway. edit- I forgot to connect them points :lol1: cause I babbled. My point was it all more or less started with Sparta. The Greeks had boxing similar to ours because they liked to see boxing similar to ours. The Romans and bare knuckle guys wanted something bloodier, but, that's just as Spartan based as the Greek or modern version of the sport. It isn't until the 1790s boxing gets influences that drastically change boxing theory from a techniques and exercises perspective. Today boxing has loads of influences but it isn't hard to see the base is Spartan. :lol1: An ATG post right here boyos. I lol'd at helmets are for women. Such a Spartan take, and we had this mentality too.

:lol1: Warrior boxing! I mean, it's a combat sport lol. People act like because we add some rules and gear, it's all of the sudden less violent, or primal, it's not. And looking back, under the tutelage of my master, when we were in "escuela de combate", our drills were eerily similar to how I've seen drills depicted for gladiators in the past, and similar to our methodology of drill repetition in the army. In the army we believed in "train how you fight" and if you apply this to boxing, it's a good thing.

Eddie Murphy was on a roll in this skit.. That whole movie was pretty damn good - Eddie Murphy in his prime was something else, and that might be my favourite scene just because how accurate it is and relelvant it will always be

Most overrated boxer in the history of boxing....not only that but the Italian mafia interfered with most of his matches tooSo you are right and everybody else is wrong? Blaming the mafia is really grasping at straws. Where is any evidence of that?

Greatest of all time. People don't like Rocky for one reason only. He represents everything most people claim excludes you from greatness. He's a sword and shield warrior in an era when boxing fans believe boxing is a scientific sport. A gladiator after all the gladiators were replaced by fencers. When you look at a puncher's style you'll notice there is levels to their boxing abandonment. Most punchers are going to reserve some level of boxing skills and techniques for when they need them. It's the biggest difference between Marciano and Frazier. Marciano steps very differently and covers a very different range because of it. Marciano also breaks classic footwork guidelines way more often than Frazier because of it. He's doing things wrongly. Things people were told specifically not to do. It makes what he is doing a mistake regardless of how incredibly successful he was. Now all you need is someone who knows better....which is like 90% of their arguments. "Blah-blah would school Marciano because Rocky was basic" It's wrong if you are fencing, which most boxers are, but if you're a sword and shield what is your first move? Get right in front of your opposition and bump that ***** with your shield right? And a fencer does what? Stays on the outside looking for an angle. What's right for the boxer is not right for the puncher. It's Daniel the Jew Mendoza you have to thank for popularizing the idea that boxing was scientific. Was the Jew a scientist of any regard? Nope. He was a salesman. He invented most of boxing as we know it today. Rile the audience in the press, use race relations to line your pocket, charge absurd rates, and defensive boxing all came from Mendoza. Mendoza called boxing scientific because it was the 1790s....you know...the enlightenment, industrial revolution, science was a popular marketing tool. Because Mendoza made a ****load of money most wanted to replicate that. That's why throughout the 20th century you saw way more boxers than puncher and the puncher you did see are not true puncher....like Kovalev....dude can krush, but, he can also box pretty good and does it. Not a pure puncher is he? Most are going to perform the style that makes them money. Fast forward a few generations and now you has this massive and vehement belief in Mendoza's boxing being superior in every way to Pygmachia or sword and shield because all the greats they have seen and know about are Mendoza School fighters except one. So they make a ****load of excuses as to why that is instead of accepting the idea that there are other paths to greatness. It's funny you bring up the sword and shield analogy, because I like to use a spear and shield analogy for the philly shell variation I was taught and use. :lol1:

Eddie Murphy was on a roll in this skit..

No we didn't interfere with his fights. Didn't have to.. https://media.giphy.com/media/xT1XGPDVdqIWOX1DTG/giphy.gif

Most overrated boxer in the history of boxing....not only that but the Italian mafia interfered with most of his matches too No we didn't interfere with his fights. Didn't have to..

His best wins were over shot light heavyweights. Marciano was an embarrassment to America.

60s Ali would make Rocky look like Alex Leapai against Wlad :boxing: Rock would stop him late lol.

Marciano is underrated, Ali had reach and movement over Rocky but Rocky was a better inside fighter. 60s Ali would make Rocky look like Alex Leapai against Wlad :boxing:

Marciano is underrated, Ali had reach and movement over Rocky but Rocky was a better inside fighter. Come on. Who was Rock's best win? Charles? Charles was basically retarded when Rock got by him. Come on.

http://www.peltzboxing.com/photos/rocky-joe%20I.jpg One of boxing's greatest comebacks. A great fight!!

http://www.peltzboxing.com/photos/rocky-joe%20I.jpg One of boxing's greatest comebacks.

Let's say hypothetically Shawn Porter came in and stopped both Pacquiao and Floyd to become the undisputed WW king(given Floyd beats Maidana too but Maidana can get it too), it would be great timing since Porter is young and the old masters are on their way out.

Marciano is greatly overrated in terms of historical standing.... His best wins are over the hill 40 year olds like moore, ezzard, louis... and in some of those fights Marciano was clearly getting his ears boxed off.. Great chin, Power, Stamina,, but very overrated.... It would be like if Vitali had beaten 40 yr old tyson, lennox, evander, and then retired undefeated I think Marciano and dempsey are the 2 most overrated fighters of all time... What a ridiculous statement. Also, you don't choose when you are born and when you can fight certain fighters, he fought everyone he could and retired undefeated, that's greatness.

Marciano is greatly overrated in terms of historical standing.... His best wins are over the hill 40 year olds like moore, ezzard, louis... and in some of those fights Marciano was clearly getting his ears boxed off.. Great chin, Power, Stamina,, but very overrated.... It would be like if Vitali had beaten 40 yr old tyson, lennox, evander, and then retired undefeated I think Marciano and dempsey are the 2 most overrated fighters of all time...

Marciano was overrated, ali would of embarrassed him Marciano is underrated, Ali had reach and movement over Rocky but Rocky was a better inside fighter.

Why is every undefeated thread about Floyd Mayweather. You do know that there are other well known undefeated fighters do you, such as Joe Calzaghe. Calzaghe was great, but Marciano fought everyone, can't say the same for Calzaghe.