Redgloveman

Problem I see with Wilder is his resume is so bad. He needs to beat someone other than Ortiz with a name. It's hard to judge how good he is when his second best win is Bermane Stiverne

Wilder would've been starched. Povetkin would be all wrong for him.

Wilder wanted 7 million and AJ guaranteed next in order to fight Whyte. That was to fight Whyte in the UK. Instead he will be offered 7.6 million plus the fight being in the US. Fantastic offer! Let's see if Wilder lives up to his word. Oh damn, people around here aren't going to like that line of argument

The majority of boxing fights are negotiated from afar. Meeting are usually only to discuss interest. After that, everything is done over phone and emails. Either way yours is a moot point, because as I said in my other response to you, Wilders team met with Barry Hearn. Can't expedite a process when one party didn't actually want the fight this year anyway. Sounds like you want to exonerate Wilder's side completely, that's your right. But to answer the point you've raised: Barry Hearn, to my knowledge, has nothing to do with Anthony Joshua. He's the father of Joshua's promoter. You can hardly say that turning down a meeting with the promoter himself (who has legal power to act on his fighter's behalf and make legally binding representations) is worth it because they talked to his dad... Secondly, yes, the majority of deals take place over distance because in the vast majority of cases it's not possible or convenient to meet in person (that's just life). But if the other side to a deal are in town and they specifically offer to meet you in person to thrash out the terms of a deal and you turn them down, it seems like you're less than ecstatic about actually seeing that deal made. So, like I said, my view is that Joshua and Hearn are largely to blame for the fight being put off. But Wilder's side (and their fans) are full of it when they say they were absolutely desperate for the fight and did absolutely everything they could to make it.

Fury is an extremely proud man. I remember him refusing to fight Haye after Haye pulled out of their fight with 2 consecutive injuries out of principle. That actually stalled his career massively and denied him a huge payday. Critics may argue that at the time Tyson didn't really want the fight, but I honestly don't believe that. It's madness fighting Wilder after a tune up against Seferi and Pianeta; but I can't help but think that Fury believes he'll win. It's probably a result of overconfidence borne out of smashing some overmatched sparring partners. To be honest I think that Fury is a stylistic nightmare for Wilder when he's at his best. Wilder is a slow starter and often finds himself in a position where he has to rely on his power (which, as we all know, isn't a problem for him and is carried late into fights) - he also seems to struggle against movement and is used to enjoying a significant reach advantage over his opponents. Say what you want about Fury, but he moves unbelievably well for a man of his size and his skills are just about good enough to win rounds whilst on the back foot. He will present new and significant problems for Wilder to deal with because Wilder has never had to deal with a fighter who is taller than he is (let alone one who uses movement so well) In my opinion the way that Wilder beats Fury is by catching up with Fury towards the end of the fight. If Fury was at his best then the chances of this happening would be less from a pure fitness point of view. It's hard to imagine that Fury's engine is going to be where it needs to be to stay with Wilder (whose own stamina is truly excellent) for 12 rounds. Luckily for Wilder (and everyone else in the division) Fury is not a puncher, so Wilder can afford to push the action and drain Fury's cardio, forcing him into mistakes. I see Wilder by KO around round 10

I actually think AJ wants the fight. I think it's everyone around him that doesn't. They all have said as much. My thing is AJ has been listening to these people for a long time, and look at the position they've currently put him in. If Barry, Eddie, McCracken all tell him to delay the fight, AJ's going to do it. Now it's up for debate how much AJ actually wants the fight, and many are going to say he's hiding behind his promoter, A-side, home town, but I think he does want the fight. Im pretty damn sure Hearn doesn't want it, and AJ is most likely waiting for Hearns approval. Hearn will want the fight. He often talks about being driven by putting on the biggest possible events and Wilder Joshua is as big as it gets. Hearn clearly has a massive ego and I honestly don't see him being willing to be remembered as the guy who scuppered arguably the biggest fights of the decade. But, Barry Hearn (as you mention) has outwardly said "don't fight Wilder now, fight him in a couple of years at least" and if Hearn wants to maximise the profit of his asset (AJ) he's probably thinking "I can put AJ in against anyone with a vague chance of winning and the threat and discussion of a Wilder fight will add to the profitability." Eventually though, he's going to want that big money when profitability hits something close to its maximum. The problem is that Wilder clearly doesn't like being messed around and he could refuse to play ball when it comes to the negotiating table down the line. Worse than this, either of the two could lose (both have looked vulnerable, and we all saw what happened to Kovalev last week). I've said before that this fight will happen, but that it will probably be delayed. As real boxing fans who go out of their way to find and post on forums, people around here are obviously desperate to see the fight because we know the sport - and this is the big question in the sport right now (who's the real heavyweight King after such a long and dull reign by Klitschko). But Johnny Casual doesn't really know about this fight just yet and the crazy money will only be there when this fight filters into the mainstream consciousness.

That's a head line that people like to remember but that's not actually what happened either. After Hearn received proof of funds, Hearn/AJ negotiated for 22 days before they rejected the offer, by saying they would prefer to make less to fight in front of AJ's fans. They didn't even say the offer wasn't exactly what they wanted, they just said AJ owed it to his fans. Negotiating is a lot easier in person and would have expedited the process enormously. Refusing to meet face-to-face is just bad practice.

Is Wilders stamina really that good? Or is it just because he stays at range with a very low early rounds output. Ive got a feeling hes going to wait like Wlad for that special opening, that will probably never come. It's fair to say that his early round output is low, and also that opponents can't really press the action on him because a) They are concerned about Wilder's power b) Wilder's reach advantage is generally such that he can afford to stay on the outside But I've never seen him look gassed and he definitely carries his power late into fights. Obviously Wilder's human, so he doesn't have an endless tank, but I think it's fair to say that his stamina appears to be very good.

If it happens then Wilder stops him early, might take him a round or so to find an opening but when he does he is going to send this Brit back into oblivion! How often does Wilder stop legitimate guys early? Stiverne II? Please. I agree Wilder is likely to stop Fury in his present state (possibly in any state) but let's not get carried away.

That's a head line that people like to remember but that's not actually what happened either. After Hearn received proof of funds, Hearn/AJ negotiated for 22 days before they rejected the offer, by saying they would prefer to make less to fight in front of AJ's fans. They didn't even say the offer wasn't exactly what they wanted, they just said AJ owed it to his fans. I already said that Hearn and AJ's behaviour was bad. It doesn't change the fact that Wilder's side didn't acquit themselves well either

Barry Hearn met with Finkle on behalf of Eddie Hearn. So that being the case, yes they were representing AJ. The first time Hearn met with Wilders team, Hearn said it was to discuss a fight against AJ however, Hearn never offered AJ and tried to get Wilder to fight Whyte, which he continues to do today. Don't misunderstand my stance, I don't care who acted like what, what I care is there was a legit deal on the table that was asked for, negotiated for 22 days, 70% chance of signing, then turned down, with a lame excuse. AJ/Hearn didn't want the fight right now it is what it is. It's what Barry Hearn advised AJ to do, it's what they ultimately decided to do. Only one side didn't want the fight right now, it's a simple thing to see. I largely agree. I think Hearn and AJ didn't want the fight right away. If we're being charitable it's probably because: a) The Wilder fight can be worth a lot more money in time b) AJ can afford to fight weaker opposition for another fight or two and get the same money whilst the Wilder fight builds but, I tend to agree with you generally. But, as I've said, I still don't think that meeting Barry Hearn is a worthwhile reason to cancel a meeting which was requested by the guy who's actually making the deal himself (Eddie Hearn). It's just not the same thing. If Hearn requests a meeting, he clearly has something to tell you that's worth hearing or new, you can't say "well we met your dad two weeks ago, so no, we don't want to hear what you have to say" So my point is, Hearn and AJ bad... Wilder's team bad. My view has always been and still is that both parties realise that the fight will be worth a lot more to both parties in 2019 or possibly even later, but neither wants to lose face in public so they blame the other side.

They are to be blamed. AJ said get me $50 million and Ill go to America. Vegas and Haymon said ok here you go. AJ is a liar. That's the headline that people like to remember; but in all honesty it was more complex than that. Finkel and Haymon refusing to meet Hearn until he accepted the terms of a deal that he wasn't privy to isn't exactly exemplary behaviour when it comes to making a deal. Any business person would tell you that. I'm not siding with Hearn and AJ when I say this, because their behaviour sucked too. But you don't refuse to meet a party who you intend to enter into a contract with.

Him and his trainers say he’s 100% so I have no reason to think otherwise. Beating Whyte proves nothing for Fury, and no way would Pulev fight him and give up his IBF mandatory status You seriously believe every time a fighter and their trainer say they are 100%? When have you seen a fighter say anything different going into a big fight?

Yeah I do give credit for Joshua beating Klitschko and Povetkin, they are good wins, I'm not disputing that. What I'm saying is that Joshua isn't particularly technically skilled, regardless of those wins. He achieves results with his power and athleticism, not technical skills and ring generalship. He was the same in the amateurs - he isn't a boxer. He couldn't box with the mobility and shot selection that Cunningham was showing against Fury, it's just not in his skillset. I disagree. Joshua was a very successful amateur and manages distance extremely well even if he doesn't look fluid and limber. Look at what he did to Breazeale, he didn't just walk him down and wail on him. Also see the fight with Whyte; Joshua got hurt and his boxing went out of the window for a round and a half, once he got back to his boxing skills he outclassed Whyte fairly easily. I'm not saying he's a particularly great boxer, but he definitely has skills, I'd wager better skills than Steve Cunningham who has a record of 29-9-1.

I hadn’t realised it until you mentioned, but there is an insanely small amount of hype for this fight given the circumstances and given the whole story of Fury’s return. I’m friends with a few non-hardcore boxing fans (not casuals) who normally invite me to watch big fights with them but not heard anything from them and the fight is next weekend; they have no idea it’s on. I think Fury really ****ed up signing with Warren and now he’s realised it. He wanted to come back the big hero going against the boxing establishment and it’s really cost him. There’s a reason Warren’s facing bankruptcy. And Fury’s suddenly changed his tune about AJ and Hearn because he’s realised the narrative isn’t in his favour. The worst thing for Fury is I think he knows he’s getting knocked out. He’s even said “if I get knocked out...” which is not something I would ever expect him to say. I really think the plan was to sell his chin and walk away saying “I wasn’t ready, I needed more tuneups but at least I’m a fighting man unlike AJ etc.” But the problem is: A) he won’t make the money he thought he would because Warren hasn’t promoted the fight adequately UK side B) no one’s gonna be watching his heroics anyway. The U.K. fans won’t be watching and the US probably mostly want him to get beat anyway (which he will) Before anyone loses their ****, I’m talking about hype UK-side. I can’t speak for the US. Promotion over here has been handled BAAAAADLY

A prime UK-Gold-medalist Audley Harrison! https://i.imgur.com/dp3Qv5e.gif https://i.imgur.com/5vbP7kS.gif Chris 'Nightmare' Arreola! Nicolai Firtha, you remember how Firtha rocked Tyson Fury? Now go look at what Deontay did to him! You guys are unbelievable! Malik Scott in one round! Siarhei Liakhovich WOW!!! Stop it! Probably best not to mention Audley Harrison. He has been a national joke in the UK for years where he is known as Fraudley Harrison. Even the casuals know that he is terrible. I like Wilder as a fighter, but his record is weak af, that's just looking at the facts.

Deontay Wilder will have to settle for a WBC and the HW linear crown instead. The excuses are already coming in, truly a bad sign of poor sportsmanship on the behalf of the Fury faithful, I was hoping you all gave Deontay 'Bronze-Bomber' Wilder full credit, after BombSquad takes the throne. What does this man have to do for you all to recognize that Deontay is truly the best HW you ever seen in your life? Wilder won’t get full credit. Not from the Joshua or Fury fans and probably not from the mainstream fans either. The mainstream fans will see the pictures of what Fury did to himself and since Fury has had no credible wins since then Wilder won’t get full credit (i.e. for beating a prime Fury). He’ll get a lot of exposure though for sure, which can only help

FRAUDLEY HARRISON?! The first Briton to win a boxing gold for Britain in 32 years, the first to win gold in the Super Heavyweight Division and laid the foundation for the success British boxers have experienced at subsequent Games? How disrespectful! Audley Harrison was on fire! winning the UK prize-fighter tournament! after winning British-Euro championships? how many losses did he avenge in the amateurs and in the pros? I lost count! I don't want to here or read about what a hater has to say about Audley anymore! Yeah, he was a great amateur. Terrible professional though... terrible. And I'm guessing you know what the prize-fighter tournament is? The standard is... not good. Don't go thinking I'm hating on Deontay, it's just that I would bet on most people to make Harrison look like a fool, so it doesn't really serve to prove your point. The dude's useless. David Price, who is widely considered to be terrible on this forum, knocked him out in 1 round.

Dont think many brits will be up for it, dont think people realise how little hype there is for it over here. Noones talking about it I hadn’t realised it until you mentioned, but there is an insanely small amount of hype for this fight given the circumstances and given the whole story of Fury’s return. I’m friends with a few non-hardcore boxing fans (not casuals) who normally invite me to watch big fights with them but not heard anything from them and the fight is next weekend; they have no idea it’s on. I think Fury really ****ed up signing with Warren and now he’s realised it. He wanted to come back the big hero going against the boxing establishment and it’s really cost him. There’s a reason Warren’s facing bankruptcy. And Fury’s suddenly changed his tune about AJ and Hearn because he’s realised the narrative isn’t in his favour. The worst thing for Fury is I think he knows he’s getting knocked out. He’s even said “if I get knocked out...” which is not something I would ever expect him to say. I really think the plan was to sell his chin and walk away saying “I wasn’t ready, I needed more tuneups but at least I’m a fighting man unlike AJ etc.” But the problem is: A) he won’t make the money he thought he would because Warren hasn’t promoted the fight adequately UK side B) no one’s gonna be watching his heroics anyway. The U.K. fans won’t be watching and the US probably mostly want him to get beat anyway (which he will)

Cunningham was a technically better and more intelligent all round boxer than Joshua. Joshua doesn't have that skill set where he can outbox someone with skill, handspeed and footwork. His skill set is basic and his footwork is slow and lumbering. Joshua has his limitations, but I don’t get when people act like he has no boxing skills, it’s just dumb. Joshua’s beaten two Olympic gold medalists and a clearly outboxed a guy with very quick hands in Parker. Not to mention that he has a gold medal himself. Even if you say he enjoyed favourable judging at the olympics it wouldn’t be achievable with no skills and slow footwork. Yeah Wladimir and Povetkin were past their best but they weren’t totally shot like Haye was in his second fight with Bellew. It’s the same thing with Wilder and Ortiz. Ortiz was old but he wasn’t just going to lie down; so Wilder gets some credit for beating him and Joshua should get some credit for beating Wladimir and Povetkin.

I picked him to win that fight his firepower is real, I thought he would catch Ortiz eventually Fury is a different ballgame, he will give Wilder fits a lot of people are sleeping on the gypsy king It might well come down to stamina. Fury will most likely struggle in the latter stages, given what he’s done to his body. Reflexes, foot speed and punch resistance will all be diminished if Fury gasses and I imagine Wilder will be holding his feet throughout most of the fight and be the fresher of the two.

The record of Cunningham has got nothing to do with, you could have a guy with a load of losses who is still capable of boxing beautifully. Look at someone like Herol Graham for example. Great boxing skills doesn't guarantee you'll stay unbeaten. I've watched all of Joshhua's fights, and I've never seen him do anything outstanding in terms of boxing ability. He has very good power and strength, and does the basics well. He can pop out a decent jab, but he should be able to do that, he's a heavyweight champion. Compared to the genuine boxing ability of Lennox Lewis, who had footwork, combinations, shot selection, everything, Joshua looks very basic and workmanlike. What would Lewis have done to Breazeala? You seem to be more concerned with whether Joshua can box "beautifully" than whether he can box effectively. I'm sure there are plenty of fighters out there who can look balletic and then get GTFO, but I wouldn't really call that great boxing, or equate aesthetics with skills.

Just a PR game. So Whyte is willing to fight Wilder in a two week notice but was not willing to fight Joshua when given the opportunity in 2019? Okay. you’re the second poster to raise this. Seems pretty clear to me. Whyte has lost to AJ already and probably feels he can’t beat him. Otherwise he would have taken the fight when it was offered. However, Whyte does believe he beats Wilder and had said so numerous times. doesn’t mean I agree with him necessarily, but I don’t see the logic in your argument. AJ and Wilder are different fighters with different traits (and Whyte’s already lost to one of them in what was a fairly one-sided fight)

The UK has a mass media which overhypes athletes over here which pushes many to route against them. Just LOL, so me being British somehow means I'm meant to ignore the fact that Fury has again proven himself to be a duplicitous knob. It’s not your position which gives you away, it’s the language you use. It comes across like someone making an unnatural attempt to sound British. For a start, identifying as “British” is pretty unusual for people who are actually from the UK. But it was “bullocks” which really gave the game away

You see this is why English fans a lot of the time are perceived to be idiots. You literally are, ****ing idiots. You seriously think I would go out of my way to fake being someone brought up in Southwark? Jesus, just like the euros, you types continue to prove yourselves to be bellends. In the next second you'll be claiming only whites can be English. I'm British, I'm not white, therefore I'm not ****ing English. I do actually, yes. Even though I agree with the sentiments implied in your post that that would amount to ridiculous and somewhat pathetic behaviour. You evidently have a massive chip on your shoulder and (no offence) don’t come across particularly bright. Your posts read like they’ve been written by a badly programmed robot. Your last paragraph has no internal logic because you don’t seem to appreciate the difference between being English and being British, which is extremely unusual for a British person over the age of 4. For instance why are you suddenly mentioning Southwark like it’s some kind of accreditation? Do you want a medal? It comes across weird and unnatural. Not quite as unnatural as writing “bullocks” but still very weird. And when you refer to “English fans” are you referring to English football fans (i.e. England fans)? I genuinely can’t be sure because the wording is very weird but I assume that’s what you mean. As it happens I’m not particularly one of those. I presume you’re not one either, given that you hold them in such contempt. In which case surely it’s a strange leap to assume that I am an England fan just because I’m British, given that you are supposedly English and not an “English fan” yourself? I genuinely have no idea why you’re bringing it up but it reads like another of your unnatural attempts to sound “British” whilst simultaneously criticising British people at the same time. (“I despise British fighters despite being Brit”) My guess is that you “despise British fighters”, as you readily admit, and decided at some stage that pretending to be from England would make it look less like a xenophobic outburst when you trash British fighters en mass.

I mean this is just horse****, his camp and himself have posted numerous videos and given mutliple interviews talking about the fight and how they train for it. To imply that this is all somehow a sign of Wilder not being game is just delusional bullocks. didn’t you say you were British? That was you right? there are loads of supposedly British posters on these boards who hate British fighters. It’s weird. why would you pretend to be British if you’re not? Weird af

Absolutely agree on all points except for the granite chin part. A granite chin implies that a guy can walk through shots without getting hurt. Wilder was clearly hurt. His survival was more about grit, heart and determination. Peace. You can add skill and reflexes to that list, but I completely agree with you.

Auto correct is real bruh lol not stressing what I write here I'm an ivy league educated lawyer, making north of 200k in nyc, if you really want to know the whole of it lol stay classy I wouldn't have ever pulled you up on it, but for the fact that you specifically mentioned that you were a lawyer and could recognise intelligent writing. Also, the irony of finishing your post with "stay classy" after having bragged about how much money you make is pretty amusing, in my opinion.

The Ortiz victory is more impressive. Wlad was done at that point and had just gotten schooled by Fury, almost shut out the entire fight. It was a good win for AJ but he went life and death against a guy he should have steamrolled at that point. It bumped up Wlad's legacy more than AJ's. Ortiz had the Cuban pedigree, seemed iron chinned, and brough power and skills. On paper he had everything to beat Wilder, and was doing so most of the fight, but Wilder and his equalizing power prevailed. If Wlad was "done", as you say, then so was Ortiz. Ortiz looked good against Wilder but not against journeymen like Martz, Allen and Scott beforehand. He's also likely older than Wlad, as we all know. But both Wilder and Joshua should get big props for winning their major step-up fights. Now we just need to see the two of the them in the ring together and this debate can be settled once and for all.

I figured you're either a writer or you work for one of the ABC orgs/promoters in an administrative role lol You're posts are too formulaic. As a lawyer, I can spot intelligent writing lol You can spot intelligent writing, yet can't distinguish between "you're" and "your"? ...interesting