also, i still cant get over the fact of how average garcia looked again morales even by having all the advantages.
True, but a few years ago, Khan didn't look all that great against Barrera either.
I think there must be more to this that isn't being discussed in the media. TMT must have someone more experienced behind it than 50 and Floyd. I have a hunch that Al Haymon is planning on moving out of the management business and into promoting. He's done it in the music business already, and has said he could take over boxing if he "wanted to".
50 Cent isn't an idiot or anything, but he's not qualified to actually control a company like that. I see him as more of a De La Hoya type of character. An owner that doubles as the "face" of the company, while the boss makes the real business decisions (the way Richard Schaefer does for Golden Boy).
There you have it folks. In order for a Cuban boxer to be successful, he needs to be Mexican.
Or Puerto Rican.
Not enough Cubans outside of Cuba to build a fan base from. They have to "hijack" another country's audience. Not their fault, but it is what it is.
i don't think he has the entire nation of mexico behind him just yet...
true what you said before though, but oscar was big from the start of his pro career. the backstory of a hispanic kid from east la grabbing a gold medal for the US dedicated to his mother's passing, it paved the way for him to be big in the pros. not to mention the big factor of him speaking english.
broner, already have fought in mexico, can do it again and further increase his name and fanbase throughout mexico and latin america. he can even go to the uk. guys like burns, mitchell, rees, and murray, he can go over there and make a bigger name for himself on a larger scale. broner has the potential of being a bigger name internationally is what i mean. not saying it'll happen for sure, but just throwing that idea out there. both can and probably will be huge names for years to come, but i'm just giving out possibilities of what broner can do with his career.
Yeah, he had a sad story at the start of his career, but let's face it, what gave Oscar his fame outside of boxing were his looks. Girls used to go to his fights by themselves lol (no boyfriend or siblings). Canelo's got Broner beat in that respect. Girls go crazy for the guy already.
Sure, Broner's gone to Mexico, but people over there boo'ed him after he beat Litzau because he was boring as hell leading up to the knockout. And when it happened, he danced around like a clown (Mexicans as a culture tend to hate showboating... Jorge Paez Sr being the only exception), and fans boo'ed even harder. Plus Broner's already a PR nightmare for Golden Boy because of his racist twitter rants against Mexicans lol.
As far as being popular in the UK, I'll put my money on the Irish-looking kid capturing more fans than Broner. Same reason Hatton has more fans in the UK than better English-born fighters of other ethnicities.
http://face-and-emotion.com/dataface/physiognomy/media/cranium_side.jpg
The skull is not just a giant bone, but it's actually divided in several bones.
Also that is not an X-Ray, that's more like a computer generated image that was actually made from several X-Rays.
I think Maidana left a few EXTRA cracks on Ortiz's skull though...
broner easy decision, marquez can't figure out the philly shell defense, especially when it's being done to perfection
nobody is saying broner is as good as mayweather, but he has arguably the second best defense in boxing behind floyd and Marquez has proven he can't do **** to that style
1. Broner doesn't do it to perfection.
2. Floyd and Marquez just proves he can't do **** to Floyd (neither could anyone else Floyd's fought). Broner's been hit by, and has arguably lost to lesser fighters than Marquez.
I think the whole English thing has little effect. For example, Tito Trinidad didn't need to learn, and was extremely popular. Roberto Duran hasn't even bothered learning it after all these years lol, and he's still beloved by fans from all types of non-Spanish speaking countries.
The best route for Cubans to take is to do the same as legends like Jose "Mantequilla" Napoles and Ultiminio "Sugar" Ramos. They should spend the beginning of their careers in Mexico, where they can communicate with fans better about their background and experiences, and where they can sell their personalities better than they ever could in broken English (Rigondeaux is actually pretty funny in interviews where he lets his guard down). Also, their styles will naturally turn more aggressive. The "tomato cans" in Mexico tend to be tougher than those in the U.S. and come forward more often.
Then, when it's time to crossover, they can start fighting in Southern California or Texas. Mexican-American households have access to the Mexican media, and they'll have a following already, just as Canelo had an instant following when he came to the states. Mantequilla in particular was insanely popular in Mexico back in the day, and was welcomed as an adopted Mexican (came out in movies, etc). Sugar Ramos hung out with Mexican celebrities.
The U.S. is definitely not the only game in town, especially in the early part of a fighter's career.
Could be true but so much of what they say is lost in translation that once it's translated it does not sound as good. Sometimes translators say the wrong stuff too...
So what? If Mayorga can hype up a fight without speaking a word of English, so can the rest. And if they're developed in Mexico, they wont' need to speak English to gain popularity. They'll just have to be good fighters.
Boring? boring? He knocked Litzau out in the first round how did you get bored in two minuets? This guy is aggressive, has very fast hands, slick boxer and puts guys to sleep. He's 'boring' to you because he is black. The highest paid athelete in the world is a fighter and yep he is an 'other ethncity'.
He was boring leading up to it, and the Mexican fans at the stadium started boo'ing before the knock out. Then they cheered and went crazy for him when Broner knocked him out. Then they boo'ed Broner again went he started dancing around like a clown and posing on the turnbuckles. Mexican fans don't like that bs from their own fighters either, win or lose... you don't believe me, watch the fight again.
And Floyd is the highest paid athlete in the world because he's the best skilled fighter in the world. People throw around the word "slick" like it means something. You could be slick and still sloppy like Broner or a young Judah. Mayweather is slick AND fundamentally sound. There's more to his defense than a simple shoulder roll, and quick hands. If you want to see the next Mayweather in terms of learned skill and talent together, it's Gary Russell Jr, not Broner.
Broner will be a good fighter in his own right though, but not as good as Mayweather it seems.
i think it can be broner. he's an outspoken black american, he attracts haters which results into more talk about him as well as tv ratings. alvarez is in a tough division that i see him losing to some guys (if only he would get in the ring with them to prove me wrong). broner is moving into a division that has quality opponents but i don't really see him losing to any, even though anything could happen. i see alvarez losing before broner, thus dimming alvarez' starlight a bit more than broner's.
Oscar De La Hoya was still immensely popular after he lost a few times. Plus Canelo's fights are shown on national TV for free in Mexico. That's how popular he is. It's one thing to have a large Mexican fan base... it's another to have the ENTIRE Mexican fan base.
Plus I see Broner being outclassed by Gamboa.
In the 50s, Kid Gavilan fought regularly on television. He was a star. So was Kid Chocolate, back in the 30s, before television. They were major draws, despite being black Cubans in notoriously racist eras.
Back in Gavilan's days, it was possible to be a star because of the exposure.
As for Kid Chocolate, when a guy walking on the street saw his name on a flyer, all he could tell was that he was black. African American fans bought tickets thinking they were watching one of their own, and white racist fans went in wanting to watch a black fighter get beat. Boxers faking accents or ethnicities was frequently done in those days. Cocoa kid didn't even speak English at his press conferences/promotional meetings (despite having been raised in the U.S. and speaking perfect English), because he wanted to appeal to Puerto Rican audiences on the East Coast.
Roberto Duran was a big star. He didn't need a major Panamanian fan-base that to make him so. Duran marshaled a general Hispanic fan-base, but he was transcendent. Greatness will always rise and be recognized.
Puerto Rican fans filled up gyms when he trained in New York for Pipino Cuevas, and the Latin American media was all over him before he even fought Leonard. What made him a transcendent draw was beating a bigger draw... Leonard. But before then, he built a fan base among mostly Latin American people.
Edit: and by fighting in Latin countries and making defenses there.
lol great imagination you got there
Half playing when I say that, but honestly, it would be nice to see Floyd Sr and and Roger working opposite corners. We had a taste of it with Paris vs Montgomery (neither was at the fight), and that definitely didn't disappoint.
It's kind of hard to judge both Marquez and Broner at this point. I don't see Marquez having much trouble with Escobedo either. And we don't have any idea how Broner would do against Manny Pacquiao.
However, just because Broner defends with his shoulder, doesn't mean he'll have the same success against Marquez as Floyd. They just stand the same. But Broner doesn't have the same skill level Floyd did at that age. Speed makes everything look slicker and flashier. Slow his and Floyd's exchanges down, and you'll see the difference in skill level...
At first, I didn't think it would be the smartest move for Ortiz if he ever wants a Floyd rematch.
But then I thought, what would Floyd think of his uncle training a possible future opponent?
Wouldn't it be great if the following happened:
1. Floyd gets angry with Roger over this and leaves him
2. Floyd Jr. reconciles with Floyd Sr., and asks him to be his trainer
3. Roger greatly improves Ortiz's skills, putting some credible wins on his resume.
4. Mayweather-Ortiz II ends up being a long-awaited showdown between the two Mayeather brothers, and much more competitive than the first fight.
not really , had he beaten kostya tsu , that woulda beeen helll of a lot better than a corrales imo..had he beat cotto pre margarito , that woulda been way better win than a corrales..had he beaten margo pre pwill, that woulda been a greater win than a corrales...again , floyd has had a greeat career no doubt but it could've been better....
+1
Agree with the above, but I think Floyd is making up for it these days, and fighting the more challenging fights. Plus I have the feeling he only came out of retirement to fight for a Pacquiao pay day in the first place (hence the initial comeback tune-up against Marquez to draw comparisons and hype).
Why can't they just add commercial time in between fights?
They can also cut into the action a bit. I've seen older TV fights where commercials ended after both fighters had already started walking towards each other.
1. Broner for being racist.
2. Tie between seeing Ortiz or Judah knocked out COLD with one punch. They always find a way to get out of fights when they feel overmatched.
Wow, Khan and Ortiz are cosmic bro's:luvbed:
I still think Ortiz has a good chance of making something of himself if he can get his mind right, and fix some defensive problems. He has all the physical tools.
Khan is still a good fighter, and he can still have a long and exciting career. If he tightens his game up and trains with Floyd Sr or someone similar, I can see him being a Roger Mayweather type of fighter. He had a weak chin too, but his opponents had to get through a smart defense, and a murderous offense to get to it.
If Donaire wants to experiment, let him do it in sparring. I don't want to buy fights to see him play around.
Best should fight the best, and no one else until that's settled.
Called a slip a KD in the Pac/Mosley fight.
There was a punch, although it was a weak pushing-type arm punch from Mosley. Pacquiao had gotten himself off balance when he missed a punch of his own before that. The arm punch just made him tip over. The rule is if there's any kind of punch at all, it's a knockdown, even if being off balance or over a slippery area contributed to it.
Bayless was kind of forced to call it that way.
and LOL at people who talk as if Donaire is a Big Name and a Big Draw hahaha
did you not see the empty seats for that Mathabula fight? Donaire is not a fukin draw himself an Casual Fans don't give a fuk about him because Casuals really don't give a fuk about Division under MAYBE 135 :nonono:
so again to try and turn this into a Popularity Contest as a Reason whey he shouldn't fight Rigondeaux, it just makes Donaire Fans look so bad and Clueless (which many of them are anyway)
Casuals don't give a FUK about Donaire Either! Sadly, Only the Hardcore Fans care about the Lower Division:nonono:
+1
LOL at people trying to play manager for their favorite fighter. In this division, the best fighting the best gets you fans.
There are no "casual" fans watching boxing unless Mayweather or Pacquiao are fighting.
Where is a casual fan going to hear about Donaire from?
Khan almost hired Floyd Sr as a trainer instead of Roach. I think he should look into that route. Freddie's been around and knows how to give fighters the right strategy to use with their existing skills.
But Floyd can actually ADD new skills to his fighters, and that's what sets him apart. Also with his reach and fast hands, Khan is well-suited from countering from a defensive "shell" style.
Kell Brook's is a bit plodding at times which gets him caught. He only has one gear... Heck he even dropped VS Jones because he has no balance at times.
Rigon changes up speed and is agile. Pretty good.
Hopkin's is supreme. He does not rely on speed but placement, and actually helps him get out.
Andre Ward uses his feet pretty well as part of his defense and offense.
Agree on Rigondeaux as well.
Khan touches the canvas around second 28 and the fight is restarted with only 9 seconds remaining on the clock, so Khan actually had 19 seconds to recover =/
I think Bayless did a good job on the first KO. It was Khan who was buying a few extra seconds for himself by walking up to Skip really slow, and then offering his gloves up in slow motion too. Once Khan finished his walk, Skip took the gloves quickly, wiped them, and bam... fight's back on! A ref has to let the guy walk to him to show he can stand on his own. There's no time limit for this.
And despite looking wobbly, Khan beat the first count by quite a few seconds, so Bayless had to give him the benefit of the doubt.
Linares, Pacquiao and Khan have all lost this year.
Will it be 4 when Chavez faces Sergio?
Is there a ''Roach curse'' in the air?
Not been a good year at all for Freddie Roach.
Probably not, because except for the day of the fight, he's pretty much Chavez Sr's fighter now lol...
Doesn't mean he can't have a go at fighting him - 'grow some balls bro'
I think Khan needs someone like Floyd Sr or Eddie Mustafa Muhammad. Right before he hooked up with Roach, he visited Floyd Sr and considered training with him. I think that would have been a better match. Roach didn't do anything to change Amir's amateur style, and just based his strategies fighting the same way he always has (made him run to stay off the ropes so he wouldn't have to learn inside fighting, encouraged hoping in and out of range against big punchers).
Floyd Sr can teach Amir defense and inside fighting.
Khan cant take a punch...Dont give a fnck who trains you...thats a issue that cant be trained differently. Even a great defense wont help. Only ONE shot can ruin the day for a weak chinned fighter. Roach is the best thing for Khan. Period!
A great defense would help a lot actually.
No reason a guy with a glass chin should be an offensive fighter. Just not smart.