Fury’s chin is very suspect.
He basically walked through Wilder on several occasions, got knocked down a few times, and didn’t remember aspects of their third fight.
Then Usyk punished him even worse in one round than Wilder had in three fights.
I think his beard is gone. He might even get knocked out this time.
Is Fury really, though?
What wins give him that status? Whyte? Chisora? It's just all built on beating a completely overrated Wilder isn't it? And a win nearly a decade ago against a guy coming toward the end of his career.
I don't want to diminish Usyk's win because he's beaten what the division was able to put in front of him, and that makes him great. But I'm not convinced Fury really earned his standout status - he kind of just claimed it by giving Wilder the credit he hadn't achieved and then dodged any test of the validity of his claim until he finally faced a top fighter.
I’m thinking you’re getting at similar conclusions that I am. Specifically, that much of Fury’s claim to ATG status, rested on Wilder being seen as an unstoppable force of nature that Fury (and ONLY Fury), had somehow managed to endure, and break down, and defeat. He had solved the puzzle when everyone else (even better boxers who managed to win more rounds) ended up on the canvas getting counted out.
Then we saw Parker walk the tightrope against Wilder and clearly outpoint him, putting on a boxing clinic that was much more comprehensive and one-sided than anyone had ever managed to do before against Wilder.
Later, we saw Zhang take Wilder’s right hand flush and just sort of nod, and fire back and buzz Wilder on several occasions in their fight, before finally knocking him out in a similar fashion to some of Wilder’s most memorable highlight-reel knockouts.
Fury, on the other hand, lacked the tightness and clinical nature of Parker when facing Wilder (except for, arguably, the second fight of the trilogy, but even so, he hadn’t gone twelve perfect rounds the way Parker did).
Also, seeing someone else (Zhang) take Wilder’s power much better than Fury did also took away some of the myths of Fury’s vaunted chin and recovery ability.
These are just some of my thoughts. I still like both Fury and Usyk. But I remember during the Fury-Wilder trilogy there was a lot of talk (even from various pundits) that Wilder was the hardest puncher in history and that he wouldn’t be able to avoid the inevitable. Fury, of course, proved them wrong and his stock skyrocketed. For awhile (even after Wilder sparked out his former sparring partner), Fury could still claim the mantle of the ONLY boxer who had survived and beaten Wilder without being knocked out. Once others did what he did, and in arguably easier fashion, a major part of Fury’s claim to legendary status no longer held water, since Wilder (his career-defining opponent) was no longer held to the same level of aura and mystique.
"I’m not saying Usyk is necessarily on the level to compete with any heavyweight from any era"
He literally proved he is one of the best. He came up and beat the giants of the division. Is one of the all time greats off his resume. BOTH Fury and Usyk can compete with heavyweights of the past,they are the best in their division.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m a huge Usyk fan. For reference I’m part Slavic myself and as we know, boxing is very tribal.
That said, I just don’t see him competing speed-for-speed with Prime Ali. Also, if Lennox or Big George was landing the kind of shots Fury was landing mid-rounds, would he have stayed up? I have my doubts…
That said, you’re right, Usyk IS an ATG… but I guess I wouldn’t rank him in the top five heavyweights all time. Probably more like top fifteen.
Fury, I’m not so sure. Love the guy, he’s a great character, but I am starting to think his skill level was a bit overrated IMO…..
I’m very high on Beterbiev right now. Everyone talks about his power, but his defense and jab are also next level. In my opinion, he just won a razor-thin fight with basically the light-heavyweight version of Mayweather. I don’t think Wilder finds the target in this one.
1. Usyk and it’s not even close. Usyk was unstoppable at Cruiserweight, possibly the best Cruiserweight of all time. Then he went up to Heavyweight and unified against someone with SUBSTANTIAL weight and reach and height advantages. He also has two wins over Anthony Joshua, and a win over Daniel du Bois, who looks like he’ll end up the new face of the Heavyweight division from the next generation. Also, Usyk is undefeated. And as if that wasn’t enough, he also fought in the Russo-Ukrainian War and is an icon in his home country, even bigger than their president. He’s basically like Pacquiao in terms of fame, only if Pacquiao had been better boxer.
2. Inoue. He looks fairly close to being invincible and he’s raising his stock by moving up the weight classes and taking more names. He is a superstar in his home country, and a big name outside of it, at least with boxing purists, who often compare him to the legends of old in terms of his style and skill.
3. Beterbiev is part of the proud tradition of Chechnya’s Musulman athletes and wrestlers/boxers. He is one of the most brutal punchers of our time, but with great fundamentals as well. He is famous in his own land and among his own people, and with boxing purists outside of it as well.
4. Bud. I’d rank him higher, but I feel like his stock has dropped to some degree since peaking after his comprehensive domination of Errol Spence.
5. Haney. Everyone saw what happened in his fight with that blustery, alcoholic, skirt-chasing brawler. Even though the result was changed because of the steroid complaint, I really don’t think his career can recover from that. It’s not like he lost to a prime PrettyBoy or Oscar or maybe even Tank, in which case there’d probably be a lot more respect for going out on his shield to a legend.
I'm not too sure what the question is? Are we ranking on adulation, fantasy head to head, or resume?
Personally I think prime Fury is a problem for most heavyweights in fantasy head to heads. But that's fantasy stuff. Doesn't mean anything.
In terms of adulation he's no Ali or Tyson.
Resume wise, Fury was never in those conversations as an all time great. He was a legend in his own mind in his own era.
Usyk is right in those conversations.
Sorry for the lack of clarity.
I guess what I meant is that I remember when Fury was at the peak of his game and had just beaten Wilder in the Trilogy, and had beaten Whyte in front of 94,000 screaming British fans, that there was talk that on his day he could beat anybody in history.
After Usyk beat him, people were giving Usyk his flowers, but I haven’t really heard the same level of praise (specifically, that on his day, Usyk could beat anyone in history).
In fact, I can’t remember what site or comments section it was, but after the fight with Fury, I made comparisons between a former great and Usyk (simply that they had a similar aura and completeness to their boxing arsenals, and had proved their championship mettle against others of their respective eras), and I remember the general consensus from other posters was that it was ridiculous to say that about Usyk and that Usyk didn’t deserve the comparison.
So, I’ve often wondered why Usyk doesn’t get as much praise for beating everyone in front of him and staying undefeated as Fury got for simply beating Wilder in the trilogy, beating Whyte, and beating an aged Wladimir.
I personally think it mostly has to do with Wilder’s aura being negated after multiple embarrassing losses, and people’s opinion of Fury after the Ngannou fight taking a general nosedive (as many considered that, not Usyk, his first loss).
Hence, Usyk beating Fury didn’t carry the same level of historical significance in many boxing fans’ eyes anymore, as it would have had it happened right after the Whyte fight, before Fury fought Ngannou and before Wilder looked cracked.
But I wanted to get other peoples’ thoughts about the phenomenon.
Because Fury dominated Wilder, who a lot of American pundits seemed to only take notice of after the Ortiz fight, sio they saw Fury beat this Monster 42-0 (41) 3 times without really realizing that Wilder has two left feet and only a right hand.
I think a lot of it is both how Fury looked against Francis, but also the fact that Wilder got demolished by Parker and Zhang immediately after the Fury trilogy, Whyte almost losing a decision to Franklin, then taking a third PED suspension, and Francis getting KO2 to Joshua (Who then got his **** pushed in by DDD)
but also most casual fans have recency bias.
As for Usyk, he will never get his praise on here. He beat AJ twice and Fury once, and the UK fans are still saying "Well, he did okay, but AJ/Fury lost the fight, Usyk didn't win it. He just capitalized off of their mistakes. If AJ fought him a third or fourth time, he'd probably win. Fury would have won the fight if it was only 7 rounds long!" nonsense.
Yeah this is kind of my thing as well. It seems like people often make excuses and downplaying Usyk’s wins. At the same time, I feel like his wins against Joshua haven’t aged as well since DDD destroyed him. Also, Fury looked like shit against Ngannou and then Usyk barely beat him. Frankly, Usyk had a much more difficult time with Fury than I expected him to, and was getting caught with all kinds of punches mid-rounds.
I personally still see Usyk as an ATG, but I think there’s a lot that goes in to many sort of downplaying his resume, and a big part of it (like you also said) has to do with Wilder’s stock falling so dramatically since he was basically Fury’s career-defining opponent.
I look at Keith Thurman as one of the biggest modern disappointments in boxing, although some may disagree.
This dude literally had a major PPV/legacy fight lined up with Errol Spence, someone he could beat, yet he was terrified and wanted no parts of it
Yes, Thurman had injuries/surgeries after the Garcia fight, but it was also clear that even if he didn't have those surgeries/injuries that he didn't want the Spence fight.
For all the talk he did, he did not dare to be great.
Personally, Mikey Garcia is my biggest disappointment from my generation, but that’s mostly because I feel he screwed his own career via mismanagement and inactivity without the excuse of all the recurrent injury problems Thurman had. Still, Keith Thurman is my close second, and it’s a shame he didn’t dare to be great. I would have loved to have seen a prime OneTime against an aging Floyd. I’m not saying he would have necessarily won, but given how a B+ level brawler like Maidana fared in his first fight with an old Floyd, I think it would have at least made for some great entertainment and uncertainty as the fight progressed, considering how much better prime OneTime was than Maidana.
I’ve said it before on here, and I’ll say it again:
I believe Floyd was/is the greatest businessman boxing has ever seen.
I think he is similar to Calzaghe in that I think at least part of his impressive unbeaten record is due to both fighting a combination of mid-level opponents and aging generational greats.
His unbeaten record (as is any unbeaten record) is still an admirable accomplishment in my opinion. But I have serious doubts he would have maintained it had he fought more high-level technicians with knockout power. Most of his opponents were either slow, lumbering punchers in the Mexican style or the David Lemieux variety, that he could either out box, or else they were aged and had taken heavy damage and still managed to give him some scary moments (SSM).
That said, I rate SRR, SRL, Hagler, Ali, Armstrong, Prime Roy, and possibly Hearns and Usyk higher than Floyd. That still leaves him in rarified air though.
Ugh… after reading more comments…. Why does every Floyd post turn into some shit about Floyd and Manny? Floyd had a better career than Manny, plain and simple. Still, Floyd was not TBE. No this is not a race thing for me, as my top 3 or 4 boxers are also black.
Skill for skill, Jon Jones likely beats them both at once.
The wild card is, Tyson went to prison and was involved in many street fights as well. So he could have a mental edge based on those experiences. Same way as a SEAL who’s seen combat might be able to defeat/kill an elite boxer like Crawford if they met unarmed in an alleyway or a forest somewhere. Even though Crawford would always win in the ring.
He could beat any heavyweight from any era with that freaky right hand, end of story.
I wouldn't write him off against any heavyweight who has ever laced them up.
He couldn’t beat Ali. Even if the punch lands. Ali could take it. Case closed.
I'm gonna get hate, I see the fight both ways.
Ali would obviously have an edge, but this is a 6'3 man vs 6'7. I would not be surprised to see Wilder manhandle him mid to late fight. His reach would be a bit of a problem
No hate from me — although I still think Ali would win, your logic makes sense to me.
ANOTHER RACIST NSB POST.....
Welcome to NSB
As for Wilder’s ancestors being slaves at one point THERE’S NO SHAME IN THAT so let’s not use it as ammo against him. They also may have been chieftains or kings or something at one point to. People’s fortunes can change for the better, and look where he is now... it’s a beautiful thing.
If you want to put Wilder down, I’m fine with that, but don’t bring race into it IMO...
It was no point in saying what he said.
But this is the ironic part. On this website dudes will be more upset at me being offended than this guy saying offensive shyt.
I agree — it’s crazy. But this forum should have no place for racism. I detest racism and will usually report it whenever I see it, no matter who or whatever race is being bashed.
A half fit Fury beat him already
Fury is fading? Based on what, his fight with Wallin?
If one fight like means you’re fading, you could’ve said it for half the fights in Fury’s career before he beat Wlad
He blows hot and cold until he fights good opponents, then he turns it on. It’s always been the way he is.
You have a fair point but look at Fury — he’s never looked the same since Klitschko and the Downward Spiral. He didn’t look good against Wallin, and to me that says something. I like Fury, and I agree that he does better in big fights but I think he’s not at his best anymore. Not having his father there, and no decent trainer also doesn’t bode well for him in any potential rematch.
As for the first fight, I’m not a Wilder fanboy, if anything historically I’ve liked Fury a little better, but I thought the draw was fair.
Haha, good sport of you.
:boxing:
Fun stepping back and looking at strong opinions less than 6 months ago and how they have changed.
Seriously!
I’m starting to feel my track record isn’t very good with jumping on hype trains.
I jumped on the Wilder hype train something serious after the second Ortiz fight. Saw that as the epitome of confidence and punch power how he lost every round until the KO. In retrospect, I think there were a lot of weaknesses there I conveniently ignored. Fury attacked those weaknesses successfully.
In the same way, I’m trying to check myself from making the same mistake with Fury. He looked great this last fight, but I’m interested how he fights against Joshua and how one that plays out. If Fury can come through the third Wilder fight and win his fight (or the majority of his fights whatever the case may be) with AJ and then Usyk, then I’m ready to say he’s the best HW of this generation. He’s already looking like he has the potential to retire ATG status. I honestly didn’t see anyone beating Wilder until a few years from now, but here he’s done it.
When Fury had to go on the offense, Wilder was on his backfoot.
Last time he was sandbagging it. This time, I think he will put the medal down.
Considering Wilder was bred to quit, I am sure that's what we'll see in the rematch.
Think about it: Fury's ancestors used to role up wearing armor on horseback. Wilder's ancestors were what you bought if you were too poor to own a donkey.
And don't feel bad for Wilder. Whatever Fury does to him, what the Police hold in store will be much worse.
Not against a little banter here and there, but seriously, this crosses a line. Not cool, man.
:rofl:
:haha:
Thread fail
"this version" bahahahahaha
Ortiz actually has heavy hands unlike pillow fisted gypsy scum Tyson Fluffy, Wilder has nothing to worry about LMAO
YDKSAB
With the exception of your racist slur about the Gypsies (I’m not Gypsy), I agree with everything you said.
This version of Wilder beats this version of Fury. Can’t see it happening any other way. In fact, I think this version of Wilder has a shot at just about any HW now or in the past — EXCEPT for Ali. He can’t touch Ali, and if he does, Ali gets back up.
He hasn't had any wars, he started far older than almost anyone, and he's gone very few rounds. Also, he doesn't do any road running.
I wouldn't be surprised to see him maintain his peak for a while
I didn’t realize he doesn’t even do road work.. does he do any replacement cardio, such as swimming, ballet or folk dance, or jump rope (like Mike Tyson) or basketball like Floyd?
Or does he just spar and hit the bag
Give me a fighter like Bernard Hopkins or Marvin Hagler, Sugar Ray Leonard, or even Sugar Ray Robinson, or today even Deontay Wilder or Vasyl Lomachenko who just goes after anybody at any weight no matter how much younger or supposedly more talented they are, and who doesn’t GUVE A **** about losing just so long as they gave everything they had. Now those are real men.
how come nobody gives fury any grief for stalling the rematch and waiting for wilder to get older?
Well, some people do.
It’s honestly pretty obvious that’s what he’s doing.
I am also of the opinion he tried to avoid the rematch with Klitschko. As a friend said, Fury’s a huge challenge the first time you gave him because of his awkwardness. If you can face him a second time he’s easier to figure out.
This is why Ray Leonard and Tommy Hearns were both each other's nightmare - they were both in there trying to do basically the same thing. Huge amount of metal pressure - trying to beat the other guy to the punch knowing he's going to counter you.
I am one of the those people who thinks Mayweather's resume is astonishingly thin given the amount of esteem he's held in. To say he "ducked" anybody doesn't even really make sense - he moved between divisions and picked fights he could win, when he could win them. From career management point of view, he was better than anyone - he made a gazillion dollars and still has all his brain cells. But the trade-off for boxing fans was no Pacqiauo fight till they were both old, no fight with Trinidad, Wright, etc., etc. Sure, he never lost. But here's something Ali didn't do: go to jail for beating his wife.
Agreed. The gf beating thing is what kept me from being one of his fans. Still enjoyed watching him fight tho.