Fury & Usyk Historical Ranking

Look, I know it's cool to poo-poo everything about Tyson Fury's existence now, because he's aged terribly, but he's just like namesake Mike Tyson, lifestyle & mental health issues have taken their toll. In spite of that, he fought a life & death fight with the P4P king who eeked out with a SD to beat him. The best version of Tyson Fury, from Wilder II - Chisora was a great fighter. Even the version that beat a better version of Vladimir Klitschko than Joshua did was a really good fighter. So, I don't agree with people who try to play down the specter of a 6'9" guy with boxing skills & incredible recuperative abilities coming at you. If Usyk went life & death with THIS version of Fury, post 3 wars with Wilder & after almost getting KO'd by Ngannou, the best version of Fury probably beats him. I think both of them are solidly top 20 HWs of all-time at this point. The rematch will settle a lot of this.

There is most likely only one all-time great fighter active, in the Heavyweight Division right now 'And that is Oleksandr Uysk'. Oleksandr Uysk is the most accomplished active fighter in the entire sport of boxing, and pound for pound 'His wins over both Tyson Fury and Anthony Joshua, are the greatest feats of achievement in the sport of boxing in the last 15 years'. Right now as we speak, statistically and in terms of feats achieved? Oleksandr Uysk is already an all-time great fighter 'Tyson Fury in my opinion, has not reached that level'. Whether it be individual performances or raw statistics such as World title defenses, Championship level fights won, Championship level fights fought 'Tyson Fury just does not have the number of performances, or the super high level boxing performances that proves he is a true all-time great fighter'. Contrary to certain narratives which are promoted, it was not Tyson Fury who forced Wladimir Kiltschko to retire 'Kiltschko in the aftermath of his loss to Fury, immediately initiated his rematch clause. Tyson Fury proceeded to pull out of that fight, twice unfortunately due to his then circumstance'. It was a injustice, that a Champion of Wladimir Kiltschko's esteem was denied the opportunity to win his World titles back against Tyson Fury 'At no point in boxing history, has a Champion for almost a decade, been concurred after being beaten once over the distance'. Note: Tyson Fury was the first fighter to inflict damage upon the Kiltschko occupation of the Heavyweight Division by beating Wladimir Kiltschko. 'And then 17 months later Anthony Joshua conclusively took the Heavyweight Division into a completely new dynasty. When he stepped up in his 19th professional fight, to battle the version of Wladimir Kiltschko who Tyson Fury should of fought in their scheduled rematch'. On April 29th 2017, Wladimir Kiltschko vs Anthony Joshua was the greatest Heavyweight title fight of the past 25 years. Not only did Anthony Joshua beat Wladimir Kiltschko, he also stayed around at the summit and defended his titles conclusively taking the Heavyweight Division into a complete new dynasty.​ Tyson Fury is a great fighter, and he is one of the three Heavyweight mountains of this era 'It is also very important to highlight, that there is extra significance for the athletes, pioneers in many pursuits in life who? Are the first individuals to achieve a specific feat, create or discover something of great importance'. What makes Tyson Fury great, is not that he has a great Championship resume 'Because he does not. Wladimir Kiltschko is the last great World Heavyweight Champion, and there are no current active Heavyweights fighters who should be rated higher than him'. As a amateur he was also a Olympic Champion 'Which is the pinnacle, and greatest feat of achievement any Amateur fighter can achieve'. In the professional ranks, Kiltschko achieved 24 successful defenses of his World titles and has fought 26 Championship level fights in total.​ When it comes to this era of Heavyweight fighters, Tyson Fury in comparison to past great Champions 'Has been a very under-par Champion. You can see up above, the statistics of Wladimir Kiltschko's heavyweight reign, now below I will post Tyson Fury's Championship statistics'. Tyson Fury has achieved 3 successful defenses of his world titles, and has fought 7 Championship fights in total.​​ Fury's raw statistics in comparison are not really registering on the radar with the other all-time great Champions. ​ Mike Tyson achieved 10 successful defenses of his world titles, and has fought 13 Championship fights in total. Muhammad Ali achieved 19 successful defenses of his world titles, and has fought 24 Championship fights in total. To conclude: So, what makes Tyson Fury great 'Is that his best wins, and feats of achievement in the sport. Are challenges and feats that he was the first man to achieve within this era'. There may be a time in the future, when flying to the moon or into outer space? Is like flying to another country. Mount Everest was first climbed in 1953, before that point in time no man in recorded history had ever reached it's summit. It is still a monumental feat to climb Mount Everest, and there have been many people since 1953 who have achieved this feat. But none of those people in terms of historical significance, esteem and greatness compared to the first individuals in mankind's history to reach the summit of Mount Everest. New Zealand's Edmund Hillary and Tibetan Mountaineer Tenzing Norgay'. Tyson Fury was the first Heavyweight fighter to survive Deontay Wilder's power 'Then he beat him in their second and third fight's. And it was these performances and feats of achievement, which transcended Fury's rating as Heavyweight fighter. Before fighting Deontay WIlder, Tyson Fury was not really viewed as an all-time great Heavyweight fighter universally, mainly because the actual fight action vs Wladimir Kiltschko was underwhelming and overrated. But for sure, Tyson Fury's win over Wladimir Kiltschko in terms of historical significance is still most likely the greatest Heavyweight win of this era'. On December 22nd, Tyson Fury will fight Oleksandr Uysk II 'And attempt to achieve a feat, that has never been done before in the professional ranks. Oleksandr Uysk is undefeated as a professional fighter and as I have stated before, he is the most accomplished active boxer in the entire sport'. When Tyson Fury beat Wladimir Kiltschko, he altered the trajectory of the Heavyweight Division 'It was a catalytic win, that had a effect on all events that happened in the Division after that point. When Tyson Fury fought and beat Deontay Wilder, he showed the combat sports world? That it is possible to confront and overcome that level of power, peril and potential doom'. It is those moments in time, which make Tyson Fury great 'When mankind first flew into outer space and walked in the Moon. When mankind first reached the summit of Mount Everest. There is extra historical significance, when you are the first to achieve such a feat. Tyson Fury seems to be most motivated for those moments, and it is those individual feats which give him his Historical Significance as a Heavyweight fighter and Champion' etc. ​

It's perception. For Fury, H2H, he was a very tough fight against other ATGs. He outskilled Wlad, got into drugs, showed up fat as hell as outboxed Wilder, then got in shape for Wilder 2 and had a virtually flawless performance where he showed excellent power and KOd a guy with 90+% KO ratio. He followed that up by easily KOing Whyte and Chisora, two high level contenders. He was always seen as the most skilled fighter in the division - his defense and ring IQ were indisputably top notch. You're talking about a guy who's 6'9", 270 lbser with world class defense and stamina of a CW. Then he started knocking folks out and he became a nightmare in any hypothetical Head to Head matchup against the HW Legends. For Usyk, again, it's perception. Usyk seems beatable. He's very undersized for the current state of the division, he's not a big puncher (not even at CW), and he does get hit. It seems like Usyk can lose at any point in time. He's 6'2" and fought at CW until he was 31 years old. He could have easily stayed at CW. Pull up his boxrec and look at his and his opponents' weight. He's been outweighed by ~30 lbs on average. The closest guy to him was Dubois, who somehow came in at 233 against Usyk (221). Dubois knocked out Joshua a year after fighting Usyk, in that fight, Dubois weighted 248. We're basically watching Evander Holyfield.. except he somehow hasn't lost yet.

1. Fury, 2. Usyk. Lewis? Maybe top 100. Any man getting knocked out by average fighters like McCall and Rahman is no great. Nash out - His Excellency

Fury had been touted to fair well h2h with fighters from past before he lost to usyk, although.most boxing fans accepted fury didn't have best resume. Usyk is now touted to do well too. Best Ali and Tyson I've read on videos comments sections

Because Fury dominated Wilder, who a lot of American pundits seemed to only take notice of after the Ortiz fight, sio they saw Fury beat this Monster 42-0 (41) 3 times without really realizing that Wilder has two left feet and only a right hand. I think a lot of it is both how Fury looked against Francis, but also the fact that Wilder got demolished by Parker and Zhang immediately after the Fury trilogy, Whyte almost losing a decision to Franklin, then taking a third PED suspension, and Francis getting KO2 to Joshua (Who then got his **** pushed in by DDD) but also most casual fans have recency bias. As for Usyk, he will never get his praise on here. He beat AJ twice and Fury once, and the UK fans are still saying "Well, he did okay, but AJ/Fury lost the fight, Usyk didn't win it. He just capitalized off of their mistakes. If AJ fought him a third or fourth time, he'd probably win. Fury would have won the fight if it was only 7 rounds long!" nonsense. Yeah this is kind of my thing as well. It seems like people often make excuses and downplaying Usyk’s wins. At the same time, I feel like his wins against Joshua haven’t aged as well since DDD destroyed him. Also, Fury looked like shit against Ngannou and then Usyk barely beat him. Frankly, Usyk had a much more difficult time with Fury than I expected him to, and was getting caught with all kinds of punches mid-rounds. I personally still see Usyk as an ATG, but I think there’s a lot that goes in to many sort of downplaying his resume, and a big part of it (like you also said) has to do with Wilder’s stock falling so dramatically since he was basically Fury’s career-defining opponent.

Because Fury dominated Wilder, who a lot of American pundits seemed to only take notice of after the Ortiz fight, sio they saw Fury beat this Monster 42-0 (41) 3 times without really realizing that Wilder has two left feet and only a right hand. I think a lot of it is both how Fury looked against Francis, but also the fact that Wilder got demolished by Parker and Zhang immediately after the Fury trilogy, Whyte almost losing a decision to Franklin, then taking a third PED suspension, and Francis getting KO2 to Joshua (Who then got his **** pushed in by DDD) but also most casual fans have recency bias. As for Usyk, he will never get his praise on here. He beat AJ twice and Fury once, and the UK fans are still saying "Well, he did okay, but AJ/Fury lost the fight, Usyk didn't win it. He just capitalized off of their mistakes. If AJ fought him a third or fourth time, he'd probably win. Fury would have won the fight if it was only 7 rounds long!" nonsense. Past bias is way more of a thing than recency bias, you see how people love over hyping athletes from the past (in most sports) and acting like the top current athletes can't compete with a "goat" or "legend" of the past. You just need to have a look at hoe over rated Mike Tyson is today in the comments "prime tyson" in 2024 is still one of the most over used phrases you see online. They even think a 58 yr old Tyson can beat the youtuber (i don't care for the youtuber but he would KO Tyson if it was a real fight, but it is a scripted netflix show no one should bother watching)

Is Fury really, though? What wins give him that status? Whyte? Chisora? It's just all built on beating a completely overrated Wilder isn't it? And a win nearly a decade ago against a guy coming toward the end of his career. I don't want to diminish Usyk's win because he's beaten what the division was able to put in front of him, and that makes him great. But I'm not convinced Fury really earned his standout status - he kind of just claimed it by giving Wilder the credit he hadn't achieved and then dodged any test of the validity of his claim until he finally faced a top fighter. The top heavyweights of each era can compete with each that is why they are the top of their eras. People love being stuck on the past. Athletes got better with time not worse, nutrition, training methods, tactics etc easier to watch 100s of videos of fights and analylse tactics and opponents then you could decades ago. Even AJ Wilder can compete with the top heavyweights of the past. That's not me saying they win them all the question was can they compete. Yes, top fighters from any division today can compete with the top of divisions in the past

Is Fury really, though? What wins give him that status? Whyte? Chisora? It's just all built on beating a completely overrated Wilder isn't it? And a win nearly a decade ago against a guy coming toward the end of his career. I don't want to diminish Usyk's win because he's beaten what the division was able to put in front of him, and that makes him great. But I'm not convinced Fury really earned his standout status - he kind of just claimed it by giving Wilder the credit he hadn't achieved and then dodged any test of the validity of his claim until he finally faced a top fighter. I’m thinking you’re getting at similar conclusions that I am. Specifically, that much of Fury’s claim to ATG status, rested on Wilder being seen as an unstoppable force of nature that Fury (and ONLY Fury), had somehow managed to endure, and break down, and defeat. He had solved the puzzle when everyone else (even better boxers who managed to win more rounds) ended up on the canvas getting counted out. Then we saw Parker walk the tightrope against Wilder and clearly outpoint him, putting on a boxing clinic that was much more comprehensive and one-sided than anyone had ever managed to do before against Wilder. Later, we saw Zhang take Wilder’s right hand flush and just sort of nod, and fire back and buzz Wilder on several occasions in their fight, before finally knocking him out in a similar fashion to some of Wilder’s most memorable highlight-reel knockouts. Fury, on the other hand, lacked the tightness and clinical nature of Parker when facing Wilder (except for, arguably, the second fight of the trilogy, but even so, he hadn’t gone twelve perfect rounds the way Parker did). Also, seeing someone else (Zhang) take Wilder’s power much better than Fury did also took away some of the myths of Fury’s vaunted chin and recovery ability. These are just some of my thoughts. I still like both Fury and Usyk. But I remember during the Fury-Wilder trilogy there was a lot of talk (even from various pundits) that Wilder was the hardest puncher in history and that he wouldn’t be able to avoid the inevitable. Fury, of course, proved them wrong and his stock skyrocketed. For awhile (even after Wilder sparked out his former sparring partner), Fury could still claim the mantle of the ONLY boxer who had survived and beaten Wilder without being knocked out. Once others did what he did, and in arguably easier fashion, a major part of Fury’s claim to legendary status no longer held water, since Wilder (his career-defining opponent) was no longer held to the same level of aura and mystique.

Because Fury dominated Wilder, who a lot of American pundits seemed to only take notice of after the Ortiz fight, sio they saw Fury beat this Monster 42-0 (41) 3 times without really realizing that Wilder has two left feet and only a right hand. I think a lot of it is both how Fury looked against Francis, but also the fact that Wilder got demolished by Parker and Zhang immediately after the Fury trilogy, Whyte almost losing a decision to Franklin, then taking a third PED suspension, and Francis getting KO2 to Joshua (Who then got his sh!t pushed in by DDD) but also most casual fans have recency bias. As for Usyk, he will never get his praise on here. He beat AJ twice and Fury once, and the UK fans are still saying "Well, he did okay, but AJ/Fury lost the fight, Usyk didn't win it. He just capitalized off of their mistakes. If AJ fought him a third or fourth time, he'd probably win. Fury would have won the fight if it was only 7 rounds long!" nonsense.

I'm not too sure what the question is? Are we ranking on adulation, fantasy head to head, or resume? Personally I think prime Fury is a problem for most heavyweights in fantasy head to heads. But that's fantasy stuff. Doesn't mean anything. In terms of adulation he's no Ali or Tyson. Resume wise, Fury was never in those conversations as an all time great. He was a legend in his own mind in his own era. Usyk is right in those conversations. Sorry for the lack of clarity. I guess what I meant is that I remember when Fury was at the peak of his game and had just beaten Wilder in the Trilogy, and had beaten Whyte in front of 94,000 screaming British fans, that there was talk that on his day he could beat anybody in history. After Usyk beat him, people were giving Usyk his flowers, but I haven’t really heard the same level of praise (specifically, that on his day, Usyk could beat anyone in history). In fact, I can’t remember what site or comments section it was, but after the fight with Fury, I made comparisons between a former great and Usyk (simply that they had a similar aura and completeness to their boxing arsenals, and had proved their championship mettle against others of their respective eras), and I remember the general consensus from other posters was that it was ridiculous to say that about Usyk and that Usyk didn’t deserve the comparison. So, I’ve often wondered why Usyk doesn’t get as much praise for beating everyone in front of him and staying undefeated as Fury got for simply beating Wilder in the trilogy, beating Whyte, and beating an aged Wladimir. I personally think it mostly has to do with Wilder’s aura being negated after multiple embarrassing losses, and people’s opinion of Fury after the Ngannou fight taking a general nosedive (as many considered that, not Usyk, his first loss). Hence, Usyk beating Fury didn’t carry the same level of historical significance in many boxing fans’ eyes anymore, as it would have had it happened right after the Whyte fight, before Fury fought Ngannou and before Wilder looked cracked. But I wanted to get other peoples’ thoughts about the phenomenon.

"I’m not saying Usyk is necessarily on the level to compete with any heavyweight from any era" He literally proved he is one of the best. He came up and beat the giants of the division. Is one of the all time greats off his resume. BOTH Fury and Usyk can compete with heavyweights of the past,they are the best in their division. Is Fury really, though? What wins give him that status? Whyte? Chisora? It's just all built on beating a completely overrated Wilder isn't it? And a win nearly a decade ago against a guy coming toward the end of his career. I don't want to diminish Usyk's win because he's beaten what the division was able to put in front of him, and that makes him great. But I'm not convinced Fury really earned his standout status - he kind of just claimed it by giving Wilder the credit he hadn't achieved and then dodged any test of the validity of his claim until he finally faced a top fighter.

I'm not too sure what the question is? Are we ranking on adulation, fantasy head to head, or resume? Personally I think prime Fury is a problem for most heavyweights in fantasy head to heads. But that's fantasy stuff. Doesn't mean anything. In terms of adulation he's no Ali or Tyson. Resume wise, Fury was never in those conversations as an all time great. He was a legend in his own mind in his own era. Usyk is right in those conversations.

"I’m not saying Usyk is necessarily on the level to compete with any heavyweight from any era" He literally proved he is one of the best. He came up and beat the giants of the division. Is one of the all time greats off his resume. BOTH Fury and Usyk can compete with heavyweights of the past,they are the best in their division. Don’t get me wrong, I’m a huge Usyk fan. For reference I’m part Slavic myself and as we know, boxing is very tribal. That said, I just don’t see him competing speed-for-speed with Prime Ali. Also, if Lennox or Big George was landing the kind of shots Fury was landing mid-rounds, would he have stayed up? I have my doubts… That said, you’re right, Usyk IS an ATG… but I guess I wouldn’t rank him in the top five heavyweights all time. Probably more like top fifteen. Fury, I’m not so sure. Love the guy, he’s a great character, but I am starting to think his skill level was a bit overrated IMO…..

Before Fury “won” a close fight with Ngannou, and lost to Usyk, many were hailing him as one of the great all-time heavyweights, and even said he’d have a shot head-to-head with any heavyweight from any era. I’m not just talking about random posters, but professional pundits as well. Now, very few people are considering Fury an all-time great. However, I’ve noticed that after beating Fury, Usyk hasn’t reached the same level of adulation and acclamation as Fury had after the Wilder trilogy and the Whyte fight. Usyk hasn’t lost (yet), and he unified two divisions. I’m not saying Usyk is necessarily on the level to compete with any heavyweight from any era, as I’m not sure he deserves that level of acclaim. I would still consider him an all-time great, as long as the bottom doesn’t fall out of his career. So, why did Fury at his peak receive much higher praise than the Usyk who beat him, and who also arguably accomplished more than Fury ever did in his career? "I’m not saying Usyk is necessarily on the level to compete with any heavyweight from any era" He literally proved he is one of the best. He came up and beat the giants of the division. Is one of the all time greats off his resume. BOTH Fury and Usyk can compete with heavyweights of the past,they are the best in their division.

Possibly a lack of great heavyweights and the way Fury fought in the first Wilder fight. I think his personality may have something to do with it as he can be quite inspiring (although this maybe just to market himself ). I still credit him for the way he fought Wilder, especially in the first fight. Very inspiring for me.