Comments Thread For: Teddy Atlas: Golovkin Is Shot Fighter; Canelo-GGG Trilogy Too Late

[slimPickings]

Whatever happens In 3rd fight doesn't change the fact that golovkin won the first two fights in the eyes of most people.

Count me in as not belonging to "most" people.
A good argument can be made for the first fight.
He CLEARLY lost the second.

As much as i respect Teddy's opinion ... he is sounding SHOT by the day. Age is also catching up with him

[yankees7448]

And the fact of the matter is, Golovkin has NOT LOST outside of Carnelo. Just like Manny has not lost since Horn.

I'll say it again. We need to STOP using age as an excuse for when these fighters take a loss. They lost. They picked themselves up and they're still competitive. If you're a fan, you need to speak on it. It doesn't matter how old Fighter B is when Fighter A fights them. Skill is skill.

You went a little far there. Father Time is undefeated for a reason. You can still be competitive at older ages. Bernard Hopkins is a friggin freak of nature. He could come back at 60 and still be a top 20 light heavyweight. His skills and experience will allow him to be competitive but would he beat the top young guys in his class? No. There is a difference between being competitive and winning. Younger fighters might have an extra gear they can go to or a reserve of energy they can draw on that older guys don't have. If the fight is close that could make all the difference between who wins and who loses. Eventually time catches up to everyone. That's just how things are. GGG and his fans just have to live with it.

THOSE guys are/were content to keep sparking B-levels because it makes them look good and delayed legacy fights until after they were past 30. That's not the fault of the A-sides and you need to start holding these B-sides accountable.

Yes and no. We should hold B-sides accountable. I already mentioned a couple things GGG probably should have done differently. Crawford shouldn't be wasting time entertaining the idea of a fight with Kell Brook. He should have fought Porter and Arum needs to stop crapping on the idea of a fight with Danny Garcia. But A-sides don't deserve a free pass either. They should be called out whenever they choose lame opposition when more threatening options are available.

And we fans need to be held accountable as well. If we really want the best to fight the best we shouldn't crap on fighters who lose those fights because otherwise why would they risk it.

[yankees7448]

And let’s not pretend GGG didn’t duck 168-175 much of his career. That had nothing to do with Canelo.

He didn't.

[kafkod]

Good points however it is what it is. Wasn't Golovkin calling everyone from 154-168 out but then wanted a catch-weight for Ward?

Wasn't Ward calling out Floyd at 160, but GGG had to wait for Andre to have a tune up fight first, then go to 168 for him "sometime next year"?

[kafkod]

Canelo is also ducking Fury, Wilder and Joshua. Stop it. The guy is not a bonafide light heavyweight. He is only 5'7". His best weight is 160.

Yeah, right!

[Combat Talk Radio]

You went a little far there. Father Time is undefeated for a reason. You can still be competitive at older ages. Bernard Hopkins is a friggin freak of nature. He could come back at 60 and still be a top 20 light heavyweight. His skills and experience will allow him to be competitive but would he beat the top young guys in his class? No. There is a difference between being competitive and winning.

Which is why I said, Manny Pacquiao is fresh off beating an ELITE, undefeated fighter and taking his belt at 40 years old. That's not competitive - he WON. His hand was raised.

Which means the excuse that the reason Horn beat him was that he was "old" is BS. He just lost.

Yes and no. We should hold B-sides accountable. I already mentioned a couple things GGG probably should have done differently. Crawford shouldn't be wasting time entertaining the idea of a fight with Kell Brook. He should have fought Porter and Arum needs to stop crapping on the idea of a fight with Danny Garcia. But A-sides don't deserve a free pass either. They should be called out whenever they choose lame opposition when more threatening options are available.

The key word there is "available".


Porter is "available" for Crawford. Crawford would be the A-side. Crawford went on DAZN and refused to fight him.

Manny was not "available" for Floyd back in 2009 because Manny and Arum were too busy making 50/50 demands and refusing drug testing.

Crawford is not "available" for Spence because of unreasonable demands.

Saunders was not "available" for Carnelo because of unreasonable demands.

Golovkin was not "available" for Ward because of unreasonable demands.

You're not "available" when you (as B-Side) make unreasonable demands.

Canelo refusing to fight Golovkin in the rematch that first time had nothing to do with whether Golovkin was "available". He decided to go and fight other champions instead of doing the ****** thing like Ruiz and rushing into a rematch. The result: Carnelo's stock is WAY up compared to Golovkin and has been for years. That's the business of boxing and he learned it straight off Floyd.

[Fire4231]

Did he look shot when he beat the current P4P#1 fighter Canelo at the worst 8-4 rounds? Nope.

Lol... Since when is Canelo #1 P4P? Anyway... Thank you for supporting my point genius, as stated he wasn’t shot. He was the same ole GGG. He just couldn’t demolish fighters like he did before because the fighter quality got much better.

Put him in with Willie Monroe two years ago and it’s the same fight outcome. Supposedly he was post prime when he walked through Vanes.

As far as GGG vs Canelo #1, is that the fight that happened in your head bro? First fight was a DRAW. Why is it every one else has to accept the actual fight results but you guys can float personal cards around as law?

A lot of people said Jacob and Derevychenko beat GGG, are we honoring those personal cards too? Look it up bro it was a draw. In the second fight Canelo won the record has spoken forever.

But once again Sensitive Beta Males Incorporated, isn’t it all moot as I didn’t say GGG was not a “good,” fighter. I said he was not the “Alltime Great/ Top 25 P4P Fighter in the past 25 years beast HBO and ESPN claimed him to be.

Where is the evidence of that claim? Canelo is more accomplished than GGG and they didn’t even have him on that Top 25 list.

As far as all time great, let’s just look at Middleweight. How many of these guys does GGG beat in his and their prime:

- James Toney
- Jack Dempsey
- Roy Jones Jr
- Mike McCallum
- Charley Burley
- Gene Fulmer
- Marvin Hagler
- Tony Zale
- Roberto Duran
- Jake Lamotta
- Emile Griffith
- **** Tiger
- Bernard Hopkins
- Bobby Fitzsimmons
- Harry Greb
- Sugar Ray Robinson
- Carlos Monzon
- Winky Right
- Stan Ketchel
- Tommy Hearns
- Oscar Delahoya
- Ezzard Charles
- Saul Canelo Alvarez
- Felix Trinidad
- Carmen Basilio
- Sugar Ray Leonard
- Iran Barkley
- Kelly Pavelik
- Jermaine Taylor
- Arthur Abraham

We could go on and on... Considering GGG fell apart with anyone with a chin, some pop and legit boxing skills, why would we believe he could even be considered an all time great at Middleweight let alone a best P4P fighter going back to 1990?

You guys must be on meth. Stop bothering me with this nonsense. Stay Corona free and safe despite our disagreements.

[SUBZER0ED]

Good point by Atlas, but a shot fighter doesn't edge out a tough victory against a tough opponent. A shot fighter gets his ass handed to him in such a fight. Golovkin is showing signs of age and is fading, but I don't think he's shot yet.

[AKAcronym]

Which is why I said, Manny Pacquiao is fresh off beating an ELITE, undefeated fighter and taking his belt at 40 years old. That's not competitive - he WON. His hand was raised.

Which means the excuse that the reason Horn beat him was that he was "old" is BS. He just lost.



The key word there is "available".


Porter is "available" for Crawford. Crawford would be the A-side. Crawford went on DAZN and refused to fight him.

Manny was not "available" for Floyd back in 2009 because Manny and Arum were too busy making 50/50 demands and refusing drug testing.

Crawford is not "available" for Spence because of unreasonable demands.

Saunders was not "available" for Carnelo because of unreasonable demands.

Golovkin was not "available" for Ward because of unreasonable demands.

You're not "available" when you (as B-Side) make unreasonable demands.

Canelo refusing to fight Golovkin in the rematch that first time had nothing to do with whether Golovkin was "available". He decided to go and fight other champions instead of doing the ****** thing like Ruiz and rushing into a rematch. The result: Carnelo's stock is WAY up compared to Golovkin and has been for years. That's the business of boxing and he learned it straight off Floyd.

Ummm...do you remember what actually happened?

[kafkod]

At roughly age 34.


I am not an HBO employee so I am not accountable for what they say or don't say anymore than you are.



The best sign a guy is losing an argument is when he tries to change the argument. I said none of those things. I said.....its ****** to suggest age didn't play a factor when he didn't start getting the really big fights until he was 34. Not that ****ing complicated.

GGG hater "logic" ....

GGG ducked tough fights when he was in his prime, and only started wanting them when he was over the hill. Yeah, that makes sense!

Which means that it's his fault he's over the hill now, so he isn't really over the hill now .. because it's all his fault ...