Comments Thread For: Teddy Atlas: Golovkin Is Shot Fighter; Canelo-GGG Trilogy Too Late

[R-Hand Southpaw]

Lol... Since when is Canelo #1 P4P? Anyway... Thank you for supporting my point genius, as stated he wasn’t shot. He was the same ole GGG. He just couldn’t demolish fighters like he did before because the fighter quality got much better.

Put him in with Willie Monroe two years ago and it’s the same fight outcome. Supposedly he was post prime when he walked through Vanes.

As far as GGG vs Canelo #1, is that the fight that happened in your head bro? First fight was a DRAW. Why is it every one else has to accept the actual fight results but you guys can float personal cards around as law?

A lot of people said Jacob and Derevychenko beat GGG, are we honoring those personal cards too? Look it up bro it was a draw. In the second fight Canelo won the record has spoken forever.

But once again Sensitive Beta Males Incorporated, isn’t it all moot as I didn’t say GGG was not a “good,” fighter. I said he was not the “Alltime Great/ Top 25 P4P Fighter in the past 25 years beast HBO and ESPN claimed him to be.

Where is the evidence of that claim? Canelo is more accomplished than GGG and they didn’t even have him on that Top 25 list.

As far as all time great, let’s just look at Middleweight. How many of these guys does GGG beat in his and their prime:

- James Toney
- Jack Dempsey
- Roy Jones Jr
- Mike McCallum
- Charley Burley
- Gene Fulmer
- Marvin Hagler
- Tony Zale
- Roberto Duran
- Jake Lamotta
- Emile Griffith
- **** Tiger
- Bernard Hopkins
- Bobby Fitzsimmons
- Harry Greb
- Sugar Ray Robinson
- Carlos Monzon
- Winky Right
- Stan Ketchel
- Tommy Hearns
- Oscar Delahoya
- Ezzard Charles
- Saul Canelo Alvarez
- Felix Trinidad
- Carmen Basilio
- Sugar Ray Leonard
- Iran Barkley
- Kelly Pavelik
- Jermaine Taylor
- Arthur Abraham

We could go on and on... Considering GGG fell apart with anyone with a chin, some pop and legit boxing skills, why would we believe he could even be considered an all time great at Middleweight let alone a best P4P fighter going back to 1990?

You guys must be on meth. Stop bothering me with this nonsense. Stay Corona free and safe despite our disagreements.

Canelo had been on a lot of peoples p4p #1 since he beat Kovalev. Did you not know that?

Also consider that he didnt get any real fights until his mid 30s so why are you comparing him to those who did?

And as for you ****** argument that he didnt demolish good competition...lmfao. Hardly ANYONE demolishes competition at the highest level and if they did then they would be worth of ATG.

Did Canelo demolish not top 25 all time bum GGG? Did Canelo demolish Jacob's? Nope and nope.

You also want to claim that personal cards dont matter right? You must be like all the other true casuals who didnt score the fight but still have an opinion right? Or you sporting that tin foil hat claiming that the media was on GGGs side and fake news?

Well news for you man, an overwhelming majority had GGG winning the first fight EASY. The 2nd fight? Most people also had GGG winning but this time by a slimmer margin.

How many of those same people had Canelo winning? None. More people agreed that the 2nd fight should have been a draw than Canelo winning.

Any boxing fan who isnt a fangirl who watched those fights witnessed GGG get robbed blind twice.

Compare that to the people who thought Jacob's or Derevychanko beat GGG. It's FAR less.

I scored

GGG/Canelo 1 8-4
GGG/Canelo 2 7-5
GGG/Jacob's 7-5 +KD
GGG/Derevychanko 6-6 +KD

Weird how the world seems to agree with me but someone like me with my personal cards are still wrong

[Apollo7]

Lol...GGG started looking shot, as soon as he started fighting other good fighters.

He was by far a champion and top fighter in his weight class but he never proved to be the all time great beast HBO said he was. When surrounded by real contenders he looked very beatable.

Had nothing to do with age, it was his competition. He was good l, just not the “top 25,” all time great Middleweight Lampley and company attempted to create.

His competition obviously played a part. His age also obviously played a part. These are both indisputable facts. To try to claim that age doesn't effect fighter performance/ability is ridiculous.

[jackblack008]

Whatever happens In 3rd fight doesn't change the fact that golovkin won the first two fights in the eyes of most people.

He won the first fight. lost the second. and Derevyanchenko whooped him bad.

I am happy for GGG, even though he would get stopped. he would still get a good paycheck and retire

[johnnycontrolet]

Teddy is absolutely right. GGG is over the hill as we saw in his last fights. I don’t think that this fight has any more value for DAZN.

[Verus]

Lol... Since when is Canelo #1 P4P? Anyway... Thank you for supporting my point genius, as stated he wasn’t shot. He was the same ole GGG. He just couldn’t demolish fighters like he did before because the fighter quality got much better.

Put him in with Willie Monroe two years ago and it’s the same fight outcome. Supposedly he was post prime when he walked through Vanes.

As far as GGG vs Canelo #1, is that the fight that happened in your head bro? First fight was a DRAW. Why is it every one else has to accept the actual fight results but you guys can float personal cards around as law?

A lot of people said Jacob and Derevychenko beat GGG, are we honoring those personal cards too? Look it up bro it was a draw. In the second fight Canelo won the record has spoken forever.

But once again Sensitive Beta Males Incorporated, isn’t it all moot as I didn’t say GGG was not a “good,” fighter. I said he was not the “Alltime Great/ Top 25 P4P Fighter in the past 25 years beast HBO and ESPN claimed him to be.

Where is the evidence of that claim? Canelo is more accomplished than GGG and they didn’t even have him on that Top 25 list.

As far as all time great, let’s just look at Middleweight. How many of these guys does GGG beat in his and their prime:

- James Toney
- Jack Dempsey
- Roy Jones Jr
- Mike McCallum
- Charley Burley
- Gene Fulmer
- Marvin Hagler
- Tony Zale
- Roberto Duran
- Jake Lamotta
- Emile Griffith
- **** Tiger
- Bernard Hopkins
- Bobby Fitzsimmons
- Harry Greb
- Sugar Ray Robinson
- Carlos Monzon
- Winky Right
- Stan Ketchel
- Tommy Hearns
- Oscar Delahoya
- Ezzard Charles
- Saul Canelo Alvarez
- Felix Trinidad
- Carmen Basilio
- Sugar Ray Leonard
- Iran Barkley
- Kelly Pavelik
- Jermaine Taylor
- Arthur Abraham

We could go on and on... Considering GGG fell apart with anyone with a chin, some pop and legit boxing skills, why would we believe he could even be considered an all time great at Middleweight let alone a best P4P fighter going back to 1990?

You guys must be on meth. Stop bothering me with this nonsense. Stay Corona free and safe despite our disagreements.

GGG beats Griffith and Basilio. They are both too small for him.

[Apollo7]

Bro...Problem with GGG is he struggles with boxers. Kel Brook was giving him problems and he was a welterweight. Without the injury who knows if he wins that fight?

So no I don’t believe it is certain and at times it’s possible for him to beat most on that list. If his prime was earlier, why did he struggle with an old shop worn way past prime Kassim Ouma in 2011? Eventually he got the KO but it makes me say what if those fighters were prime on prime? And Ouma wasn’t even close to being the best Middleweight of his day. GGG did more to prove his standing in his tougher fights than he ever did in the so called prime part of his career. If he was better then, shame on them for not moving him faster because he left some legacy on the table getting into the mix later on. But I do give him credit for Sergio Martinez because I did see Sergio Martinez duck him.

So does it matter if someone is in their prime or not?

[emceetns]

.

So wait a minute bro. So you believe based on what you saw before the fight with Danny Jacobs and who he fought during that period that Golovkin is a top 25 All Time Great? And if the competition was admittedly bad, how do we know he lost prime when if you put GGG in with that same level of fighter today he would still bull doze right through them? My point is whether he was prime or not GGG hasn’t demonstrated that he was indeed a Top 25 all time great.

That is what HBO and ESPN claimed that he was. Based on assessing his career before and after Jacobs. Are you really debating this? I said he was a legit champion and a good fighter. But absolutely nothing about GGG’s career says he is an all time great fighter let alone all time great Middleweight. To be candid, I don’t know that he beats a prime Arthur Abraham. Sorry bro we are not debating whether he was good or not. We are discussing was he over hyped. Absolutely he was over hyped.

Great questions, let me answer piece by piece:

1. So you believe based on what you saw before the fight with Danny Jacobs and who he fought during that period that Golovkin is a top 25 All Time Great?

I wouldn't go that far but based on what I saw from 2012-2015, I believe that he would have beaten Sergio Martinez in a tremendous "passing of the torch" type of fight and outlasted Miguel Cotto in a war. Canelo was always going to be a tough matchup but in 2015-2016 I would have leaned GGG. It could go either way though.

2. And if the competition was admittedly bad, how do we know he lost prime when if you put GGG in with that same level of fighter today he would still bull doze right through them?

Another excellent question. I think GGG's opposition was solid from 2012-2016 (Pre-Canelo). Not bad but certainly not quite a murderer's row either. He beat some contenders while pursuing a shot at Sergio Martinez, Miguel Cotto and Canelo until he eventually got Canelo.

How do I know he lost his prime during that time? I see a clear difference in Golovkin in 2013 (His absolute peak in my opinion) and 2016. When you look at it side by side, you see that by the time he gets to Kell Brook, he is a little slower and not quite as destructive. He really had to work to get Brook out of there in 2016 whereas he probably takes Brook out much easier a year or two earlier. Would he bulldoze through the same competition today? I think he still wins but the fights are a lot closer. He cracked Matthew Macklin's ribs back in 2013 and I don't think he's cracking any ribs now.

3. Based on assessing his career before and after Jacobs. Are you really debating this?

I'm not saying Golovkin is an all-time great because he didn't get the opportunities early enough to prove that. All we can go by is the eye test and how everything played out during his prime years. Was he overhyped? Perhaps, but then again no one was eager to step up and stop the hype train either. I mentioned Julio Caesar Chavez Jr. because he happened to grab a belt without a resume full of signature wins and Sergio Martinez couldn't wait to show how overhyped he was. Most fighters love cherry-picking titles and I believe that someone like Miguel Cotto would have been eager to face GGG if he was an easy target.

Ultimately we will never know for sure, but as it stands he battled a prime Canelo on even terms in his mid-30's and that leads me to believe that he could have done even better a few years earlier.

[SteveAnitaSmith]

Canelo basically wrecked DAZN with his diva antics

[Fire4231]

First off, compared to you I am a genius and I am a boxing expert in every way.
Lol... You aren’t showing up that way at all. Glad you told me sonIncan watch out for increased neuro activity.

Next, Canelo is P4P#1 right now. It's a fact, not an opinion.

Why because you “the boxing expert,” expressed his opinion? P4P number one is Bud Crawford, shut up.

Lastly, stay on topic. GGG beat Canelo in 2017 at least 8-4 when he was still mostly his prime self.
Show me it in writing that 8-4 win clown pull up boxing record and show me GGG won that first fight. I will wait.

It's clear that he had lost a step in the rematch and has only declined since then even more. You don't just get better reflexes after you turn 35 in case that escapes your sense of reason.

Ahh...We weren’t talking about GGG past 35 he fought Danny Jacobs before that. He struggled with Kassim Ouma in 2011 and he was shot.

Btw- What does your lost-a-step-o-meter look like? Haven’t seen the other afficianados carrying one lately? Maybe Lampley bought the last one after the the GGG vs Jacobs fight?

2nd Lastly. Right back at ya on the bolded part.

Yeah I can’t tell what was bolder. Because you cut out my whole comment. I would have cut out my last response also.

It doesn’t make you the credit for being the superior boxing genius you deserve. Take care again. I feel like you may have some years on me and I do respect that.

[bojangles1987]

I'd have a little more interest in a third fight if it wasn't guaranteed that Golovkin can't win a decision. At this point it's just too much for Golovkin to knock Alvarez out and he has no other chance to win, even if he deserves to win.