Comments Thread For: Teddy Atlas: Golovkin Is Shot Fighter; Canelo-GGG Trilogy Too Late

[Doubledagger]

Man, GGG really elicits some passion on both sides of the argument. There are alot of truths out there and they don't all fall on side or the other. Here are some of my takes:

1) for whatever reason he hit the mainstream market late in the game. A long amateur career, poor promotion, etc. I don't think that's completely his fault.

2) he was an impressive, offensive minded knockout puncher. This style of fighter is always over-hyped. It's a natural phenomenon, when power punchers fight guys below thier level they usually blow them out in more convincing fashion than other styles. They, and pressure/volume fighters usually have a shorter shelf life than your boxers.
3) Canelo used his leverage to get the fight when he wanted it. I thought GGG won the first fight and I thought the second was close and probably a draw but if a fighter won it, I'd give it to Canelo. I imagine Canelo wins the third fight without controversy.
4) unless a fighter is struggling to make a weight, I don't think he's obligated to go up in weight class. Hopkins made his legacy at 160 and how many times did he fight Robert Allen and Antwun Echols in that run? I don't begrudge him for that.

GGG was a very good fighter and he was also very hyped by the HBO machine. He fought most of his top competition on the down slide of his career. He didn't look as impressive in alot of these fights because of one or multiple reasons listed above.

Most of what you said is either true or debatable either way (not wrong but not necessarily right either), but Bernard Hopkins was an aweful example.

You should have rather used Hagler because Bernard didn't just make his legacy at 160 like GGG and Hagler, he actually skipped two weight classes and became a unified champion of three belts, beating the likes of Pascal and Tarver on his 175 run, and that was in his fourties.

There is absolutely no comparison between him and GGG.

GGG and Hagler perhaps, although GGG still has yet to have a clear win over a great fighter whereas Hagler had wins over Tommy Hearns and Robert Duran, who are not only hall of famers but all time greats.

Which future hall of famer has GGG beaten, nevermind an all time great.

[Doubledagger]

Canelo ducked buth those guys as a JM and now as a Middleweight. That's a fact. Canoli, Charlo and Andrade have been in the same divisions and held titles in those divisions for a heck of a lot longer than Golovkin and they never fought. Explain that one.

Why must I explain it again?

Am I a Canelo nuthugger who is in denial about Canelo ducking those two?

So what if he did?

We're not talking about Canelo here are we? We talking about GGG.

How about you explain Mr everyone from 154 to 168 and Mr "these other guys are not real fighters, they are just businessman" turning into a businessman and throwing "anyone from 154 to 168" out of the window when Andrade, Charlo, and Lara came calling?

[TonyGe]

Why must I explain it again?

Am I a Canelo nuthugger who is in denial about Canelo ducking those two?

So what if he did?

We're not talking about Canelo here are we? We talking about GGG.

How about you explain Mr everyone from 154 to 168 and Mr "these other guys are not real fighters, they are just businessman" turning into a businessman and throwing "anyone from 154 to 168" out of the window when Andrade, Charlo, and Lara came calling?

FYI the whole thread is about Canelo and Golovkin. My remarks are relevant. The fact is Canelo avoided fighting both Charlo and Andrade since his days as a JM and nothing has changed since then.

[emceetns]

You mean like how Erislandy Lara and Andre Ward tried to expose him way sooner and GGG became a businessman all of a sudden?

He could have fought those guys, however neither guy was at 160 at the time and Lara is still at 154 to this day.

Oh, and before we start with the "anybody from 154-168" business, yes, Golovkin never should have said that because in all honesty GGG was only willing to go down to 154 for Mayweather or Pacquiao. Also, Lara could have actually moved to 160 and faced a top contender there to really put himself in position as a serious possibility.

[PBR Streetgang]

Most of what you said is either true or debatable either way (not wrong but not necessarily right either), but Bernard Hopkins was an aweful example.

You should have rather used Hagler because Bernard didn't just make his legacy at 160 like GGG and Hagler, he actually skipped two weight classes and became a unified champion of three belts, beating the likes of Pascal and Tarver on his 175 run, and that was in his fourties.

There is absolutely no comparison between him and GGG.

GGG and Hagler perhaps, although GGG still has yet to have a clear win over a great fighter whereas Hagler had wins over Tommy Hearns and Robert Duran, who are not only hall of famers but all time greats.

Which future hall of famer has GGG beaten, nevermind an all time great.

I'd argue that B-Hop had already cemented his legacy before he moved up. I could have used Hagler or Monzon as examples but I didn't watch or live through enough of their careers to comfortably speak of them in comparison. Also let me clarify, I'm not saying GGG was as good as Hopkins (or Hagler or Monzon). I'm stating that it's not incumbent upon a champion to move up in weight classes to establish themselves.

[emceetns]

exactly... also...

Jacobs was a HUGE underdog, nobody gave him a chance

NOBODY ever called Jacobs elite until after the Golovkin fight

Golovkin suddenly got old at THE EXACT SAME TIME he stepped up his competition

who woulda thought ???

it is clearly obvious that Golovkin was over-rated

good fighter... just not as good as advertised

the fcuk-monkeys are still running around saying he can beat Ward LMAO

I thought Golovkin showed some signs of getting old against Kell Brook (the fight before Jacobs) and I believe that the last fight of his prime was David Lemieux. The Dominic Wade fight obviously didn't tell us anything but I saw a clear difference between GGG against Lemieux vs him against Brook. He still got the job done but he had to work a lot harder than he would have in say 2013.

[Nay_Sayer]

If Golovkin was truly that overrated then an elite opponent would have tried to "expose" him way sooner. That's just how it works.

Andre Ward was interested. So was Carl Froch..

[emceetns]

Andre Ward was interested. So was Carl Froch..

They were, however neither guy was at 160 so I don't hold it against GGG too much that he didn't move up to fight them. Also, Ward was on the shelf and only fought once from 2013-2015.

Froch says that there was an offer to take the Golovkin fight at 166 but he couldn't get down that low.

Could Golovkin have chosen to go up to 168? Sure, but I don't see moving up as an absolute necessity if you can make weight in your own division.

[Nay_Sayer]

They were, however neither guy was at 160 so I don't hold it against GGG too much that he didn't move up to fight them. Also, Ward was on the shelf and only fought once from 2013-2015.

Froch says that there was an offer to take the Golovkin fight at 166 but he couldn't get down that low.

Could Golovkin have chosen to go up to 168? Sure, but I don't see moving up as an absolute necessity if you can make weight in your own division.

I recall Bumlovkin saying 154-168 was no problem - so what's with the 166lb catchweight? He also wanted a 164lb catchweight for the Ward fight.

I smell a duck..

[yankees7448]

ggg was never ducked,he ducked dervy for a rematch and jacobs for a rematch and yet he cry loud for a rematch against canelo and canelo give it to him so lets not forget that he ducked people too,not to mention that he demanded the jugges,reff and gloves for canelos rematch,AGE IS NOT A FACTOR OR EXCUSE JUST LOOK AT PACQUIAO STILL COMPETING AT THE HIGHEST LEVEL

Shut up fool. Repeating bull s hit doesn't make it less bull s hit. Don't make me school you a ss too you goat f uckr.