how come ortiz couldnt achieve anything as an amateur?

[Madison Boxing]

He won tournaments all over the world..how is that not the international stage?

as i said he won mickey mouse tournaments, he didnt win the two that count- olympics and world championships. he lost ****ing 13-0 in one of them tournements u referenced too lol

[PrBoxing88]

Funny thing is that AJ want no part of Luis Ortiz.

[Larry the boss]

as i said he won mickey mouse tournaments, he didnt win the two that count- olympics and world championships. he lost ****ing 13-0 in one of them tournements u referenced too lol

Those are no mickey mouse tournaments, its on the international stage..and you laugh at him losing 13-0?? yet Joe Joyce got knocked out 2 times in 2 different tournaments

[Madison Boxing]

Funny thing is that AJ want no part of Luis Ortiz.

hearn signed him up to build that fight but he stunk out the joint on his sky sports showings. i swear on my life as a brit thats why the fight didnt happen cause the casuals watched them fights and thought he had no shot against joshua. there was no excitiment regarding it.

[Deus]

He won tournaments all over the world..how is that not the international stage?

Technically he won tournaments in 2 countries. Once he won the Cuban Nationals and once he won the Pan-American Championships (which was hosted in Brazil at the time) so 'he won tournaments all over the world' is one hell of a stretch.

Also; winning the Cuban Nationals isn't the international stage, it's the national stage. Clue is in the name.

[dan_cov]

what do u mean he didnt do anything to qualify? Joshua got to the world championship final and lost by a point thats how he qualified.

I mean who did he actually have to beat? A few guys from the U.K neither of us have even heard of and fighters from boxing nations such as Malta and the Isle of man?

The whole qualifying process is different in Cuba the talent and depth is levels above. The guy was competing with arguably the two greatest, most decorated amateurs of all time there are many top flight amateurs in Cuba also Russia who don't make it or get the opportunities others do because of their system. I mean look at Wilder no disrespect to him but he practically represented the U.S purely because they hadn't anyone else to send.

[Madison Boxing]

Those are no mickey mouse tournaments, its on the international stage..and you laugh at him losing 13-0?? yet Joe Joyce got knocked out 2 times in 2 different tournaments

joe took up boxing at the age of 22 and still accomplished a lot more than this amazing cuban technician could dream of.

[TheBigLug]

crawford turned pro at 20 though not 30 like ortiz. ortiz was in his prime years as an amateur. And the cases are different because at least theres some evidence that crawford is a world class boxer, ortiz hasnt accomplished much in the amateurs and hes not accomplished much in the pros. Everyones basing this fearsome reputation on him beating bryant jennings, its farcical.

well i don't disagree. The jury has always been out on Ortiz in my eyes. I thought he dispatched of Jennings in good style but it was the only decent thing he did as a pro.

That said, you can say most heavyweights are building reputations off not doing much. Parker was considered a top 3 Heavyweight but what's he ever done? sc****d past Andy Ruiz?

AJ has a reputation when all he did was go life and death with a shot to bits 41 year old Klitschko and beat a load of average fighters.

Wilder has built his by knocking out a load of poor to average fighters and an overhyped Ortiz.

Tyson Fury is the only Heavyweight that can claim a truly excellent win, but even that was 3 years ago now and Wlad was somewhat faded then too but was still the dominant force at the time.

However, your assessment on Ortiz's amateur career or lack of major success doesn't really have much relevance in terms of his skill level. It isn't that straight forward.

[Larry the boss]

joe took up boxing at the age of 22 and still accomplished a lot more than this amazing cuban technician could dream of.

Now you are moving the goal post man

[Madison Boxing]

I mean who did he actually have to beat? A few guys from the U.K neither of us have even heard of and fighters from boxing nations such as Malta and the Isle of man?

The whole qualifying process is different in Cuba the talent and depth is levels above. The guy was competing with arguably the two greatest, most decorated amateurs of all time there are many top flight amateurs in Cuba also Russia who don't make it or get the opportunities others do because of their system. I mean look at Wilder no disrespect to him but he practically represented the U.S purely because they hadn't anyone else to send.

i understand your point but in this example joshua qualified due to his performances at the world championship, you automatically qualify if you get to the later stages.