how come ortiz couldnt achieve anything as an amateur?

[Madison Boxing]

well i don't disagree. The jury has always been out on Ortiz in my eyes. I thought he dispatched of Jennings in good style but it was the only decent thing he did as a pro.

That said, you can say most heavyweights are building reputations off not doing much. Parker was considered a top 3 Heavyweight but what's he ever done? sc****d past Andy Ruiz?

AJ has a reputation when all he did was go life and death with a shot to bits 41 year old Klitschko and beat a load of average fighters.

Wilder has built his by knocking out a load of poor to average fighters and an overhyped Ortiz.

Tyson Fury is the only Heavyweight that can claim a truly excellent win, but even that was 3 years ago now and Wlad was somewhat faded then too but was still the dominant force at the time.

fair enough mate

[Madison Boxing]

Now you are moving the goal post man

im not, my point is still the same, the master boxer couldnt do what joyce and joshua did in less time in the amateurs. he was a level below them two, who were elite amateurs whether you like it or not. whether people say joe is slow, stiff, robotic or whatever he was still an elite amateur

[Larry the boss]

im not, my point is still the same, the master boxer couldnt do what joyce and joshua did in less time in the amateurs. he was a level below them two, who were elite amateurs whether you like it or not. whether people say joe is slow, stiff, robotic or whatever he was still an elite amateur

Ortiz was on a much deeper team and had a tougher road man..Who were the top boxers on Joshua's and Joyce's national teams?

[paulf]

I don't know, ask all the contenders who have been running scared of him since he KO'd Bryant Jennings?

[Deus]

I mean who did he actually have to beat? A few guys from the U.K neither of us have even heard of and fighters from boxing nations such as Malta and the Isle of man?

The whole qualifying process is different in Cuba the talent and depth is levels above. The guy was competing with arguably the two greatest, most decorated amateurs of all time there are many top flight amateurs in Cuba also Russia who don't make it or get the opportunities others do because of their system. I mean look at Wilder no disrespect to him but he practically represented the U.S purely because they hadn't anyone else to send.

You are aware that Cuba also competed at the World Championships that Joshua came 2nd at right? Savon was there but lost in the quarter finals (to the same guy that Joshua lost to in the final admittedly).

Point being; you can't really talk up Cuba's amateur tournaments (which admittedly are filled with decorated amateurs as you mentioned) but then disregard world level tournaments where the Cubans that got through those amateur tournaments actually competed at the same time.

[Boksfan]

Ortiz is a good boxer, not a world champion material tho.

[SUBZER0ED]

joe joyce has called him out. he wants to fight ortiz.

32 year old, 5-0 Joe Joyce? Well, I stand corrected!

[Madison Boxing]

Ortiz was on a much deeper team and had a tougher road man..Who were the top boxers on Joshua's and Joyce's national teams?

so what i dont care how good his team was, if he was one of the best in the world like joyce and joshua he'd have made it. but he wasnt good enough. youre trying to argue something that is inarguable, it was a european fighter that knocked him out of the world championships.

[Madison Boxing]

32 year old, 5-0 Joe Joyce? Well, I stand corrected!

id understand ortiz dismissing that fight if he hadnt been fighting people like martz, razvan and allen

[b00g13man]

We desperately need restrictions on thread creation.