how come ortiz couldnt achieve anything as an amateur?

[Larry the boss]

he didnt win a lot of them he won one of them. being champion of cuba is not as impressive as europe and its not as impressive as getting to an olympic final, ortiz couldnt even get to the olympics.

I would bet Solis is better then anyone Joyce had to face to get to the Olympics..And a lot of top boxers didnt make the Olympic team and are p4p now tho..and a lot of people made the Olympics and are nothing as pros..and why is being a champion of Cuba not as impressive as being a champion of Europe??

[Madison Boxing]

You can put too much stock in what people achieve or don't in the amateurs. Go look through medalists from major competitions over the years, the vast majority don't do anything as a pro. The amateur game when Ortiz was around was very different to what it is now. The scoring was very different then, so with the small number of rounds, you could box in a certain style and rack up points. It was suited to some styles more than others.

Terence Crawford didn't do much on the international amateur scene. He didn't make the olympics because he lost to Sadam Ali and others, yet Crawford is one of the most skilled fighters in the pro game. David Price won an olympic medal, Audley Harrison won a gold and look how their pro careers turned out.

i agree but a lot of the fighters who didnt do much, turned pro relatively young and improved. ortiz was in his prime as an amateur. i just hear people talking as if hes some master boxer who'd give joyce and joshua a boxing lesson yet if we are gonna talk about skilled, hit and not get hit boxing (amateurs places less emphasis on power) they were way ahead of him. Hes not done anything in the pros either, its not as if theres any evidence for anything to back up the way people talk about him.

[Madison Boxing]

I would bet Solis is better then anyone Joyce had to face to get to the Olympics..And a lot of top boxers didnt make the Olympic team and are p4p now tho..and a lot of people made the Olympics and are nothing as pros..and why is being a champion of Cuba not as impressive as being a champion of Europe??

ones a continent and ones a single country. what have cuba done in the heavyweight pros even compared to a single country like the UK? NOTHING. And in recent years the UK have done better in the olympic heavyweights too. There were 2 european fighters in the last final.Add to that all the eastern european heavyweights.

[BlakBread904]

ones a continent and ones a single country. what have cuba done in the heavyweight pros even compared to a single country like the UK? NOTHING. And in recent years the UK have done better in the olympic heavyweights too. There were 2 european fighters in the last final.Add to that all the eastern european heavyweights.

Cuban boxing tradition is arguably richer than any in Europe save for the UK, Russia, and Ukraine

[Madison Boxing]

Cuban boxing tradition is arguably richer than any in Europe save for the UK, Russia, and Ukraine

yeah i agree they are one of the top amateur nations but winning the cuban heavyweight title is not as impressive as winning the european one

[chrisJS]

He's still a top 3 heavyweight of all-time entering his prime though.

[dan_cov]

He didn't win nothing at elite level because he always playing second fiddle to Solis who was an exceptional amateur. The talent pool is much deeper in Cuba than the U.K and the process is much harder.

AJ didn't have to beat anybody to qualify and got a load of favorable decisions. He only won gold because of politics.
Erislandy Savon boxed his doors off and was robbed. Cammarelle arguably also.

[dannnnn]

.and why is being a champion of Cuba not as impressive as being a champion of Europe??

Because although Cuba are the strongest nation in amateur boxing, you're comparing the talent pool of a single country to that of an entire continent, and how many great Cuban heavyweights come along? Not that many.

That being said, I think Ortiz was a better amateur than both Joyce and Joshua (Joshua was gifted Olympic gold), he was just overshadowed by his countryman Solis. You can see Ortiz's strong amateur pedigree in his boxing and if you can't then you don't know what you're looking at. He's the most skilled fighter at heavyweight right now, despite not even being in terrific shape.

[Madison Boxing]

He didn't win nothing at elite level because he always playing second fiddle to Solis who was an exceptional amateur. The talent pool is much deeper in Cuba than the U.K and the process is much harder.

AJ didn't have to beat anybody to qualify and got a load of favorable decisions. He only won gold because of politics.
Erislandy Savon boxed his doors off and was robbed. Cammarelle arguably also.

what do u mean he didnt do anything to qualify? Joshua got to the world championship final and lost by a point thats how he qualified.

[Madison Boxing]

Because although Cuba are the strongest nation in amateur boxing, you're comparing the talent pool of a single country to that of an entire continent, and how many great Cuban heavyweights come along? Not that many.

That being said, I think Ortiz was a better amateur than both Joyce and Joshua (Joshua was gifted Olympic gold), he was just overshadowed by his countryman Solis. You can see Ortiz's strong amateur pedigree in his boxing and if you can't then you don't know what you're looking at. He's the most skilled fighter at heavyweight right now, despite not even being in terrific shape.

whats that based on????