lets set the record straight on RJJ, who the **** did he dodge ?

[Easy-E]

It was a great post, subtracting from it the error about Michalczewski not being the linear champ. He absolutely was. He beat recognized already unified champion Hill in a unification bout. The winner, Dariusz, was the champ, unifying 3 major titles (WBA, IBF and WBO). The lineage began there. He was wrongfully stripped of two of the belts IMMEDIATELY by the WBA and the IBF (as in the same week he won them, yes). Sanctioning bodies playing dirty pool. As simple as that.

And this stuff about beating Hill "worse" so that meant he doesn't have to fight Dariusz is nonsense. Johnson beat Roy worse than Tarver, laying him out cold as a block of ice. So that means that Tarver's titles that he had just won from Roy should've gone to Johnson and that Johnson never had to fight Tarver, that he was better be default since he fought him right afterwards and beat him worse?

Incorrect facts and then incorrect logic.

But the rest of the post was pretty good. You're right about McCellan and Benn ruining each other and about Roy not having a glass chin.

I percieved that he was using that logic as saying that Roy was better than Dariusz, not that Roy should have been linear champ. Obviously roy wasnt the champ, but he was the better fighter.

[MrUnstoppable]

Yep. Michalczewski was the #1 LHW in the world between 1996 and 2003.

Not even close. WBO belt doesn't mean a damn thing.

[Easy-E]

Not even close. WBO belt doesn't mean a damn thing.

I agree. He wasnt the beset LHW.

[JuicyJuice]

Not even close. WBO belt doesn't mean a damn thing.

Neither does WBC, WBA or IBF


Fact is -

Graciano Rocchigiani was WBC light-heavyweight champion, not Jones Jr

Dariusz Michalczewski was WBA/IBF light-heavyweight champion, not Jones Jr

[mECHsLAVE]

Not even close. WBO belt doesn't mean a damn thing.

Ugh, I hate it when people chime in with no knowledge behind them.

He was the WBO/WBA/IBF champ, dude.. He beat the longest reigning and recognized, unified LHW champ- Virgil Hill. Hill unified the titles by defeating Maske, who was reigning IBF champ, having defended his title like 10 times (and undefeated IIRC).

Dariusz became the recognized, unified, linear LHW champ in the unification with already unified champ Virgil Hill, unifying three major world titles. And the belts were wrongfully stripped from him outside the ring.

It's really that simple. You can strip the alphabet "belts" but you cannot strip the championship. You can only lose that in the ring. Dariusz and Roy fought parallel to each other, not losing, and fighting many of the same fighters...until 2003, when they both started to fall apart a little.

[mECHsLAVE]

I percieved that he was using that logic as saying that Roy was better than Dariusz, not that Roy should have been linear champ. Obviously roy wasnt the champ, but he was the better fighter.

Using that logic to suggest he was the better fighter is also flawed. I mean, cmon. You have to fight to prove you're the better fighter.

After Corrales stopped Castillo were you going around saying that Corrales was better than Floyd by the reasoning that Castillo went the distance with Floyd twice?

The tranisitive property does not work in evaluating fighters and who would have won, who was better, etc. You have to fight to know, and Roy wouldn't fight him. So we will always have to guess.

[Easy-E]

Using that logic to suggest he was the better fighter is also flawed. I mean, cmon. You have to fight to prove you're the better fighter.

After Corrales stopped Castillo were you going around saying that Corrales was better than Floyd by the reasoning that Castillo went the distance with Floyd twice?

The tranisitive property does not work in evaluating fighters and who would have won, who was better, etc. You have to fight to know, and Roy wouldn't fight him. So we will always have to guess.

True, but it wasnt just one fighter....gonzalez beat him, he dealt with de valle and virgil much better than dariuz. it is my opinion that roy was better, its tought to base in on absolute fact when they never fought.

[mECHsLAVE]

True, but it wasnt just one fighter....gonzalez beat him, he dealt with de valle and virgil much better than dariuz. it is my opinion that roy was better, its tought to base in on absolute fact when they never fought.

Gonzalez beat a 35 yr old Dariusz, in a split decision.

Johnson beat a 35 yr old Roy, in a go-to-sleep-and-wake-up-next-month KO.

We can play this game all night.

If you actually look at their common fights, then Roy's performances were a little better, but not by THAT much...

Roy-
Hill KO 4
Hall TKO 11 (tested positive for roids for this bout)
Harmon KO 9
Griffin L DQ 9
Griffin TKO 1
Gonzalez UD 12

Dariusz-
Hill UD 12
Hall TKO 11
Hall TKO 10
Griffin TKO 4
Harmon KO 9
Gonzalez L SD 12

They should have fought, and I feel that the onus was much more on Roy, since Dariusz was the recognized, linear champion. I feel the champ shouldn't have to leave his country, and that the challenger should suck it up and do what is necessary to fight him if he wants to be a champion. It's really that simple.

Yes, they are both to blame, but moreso Roy. Dariusz even flew over ringside to one of Roy's fights. I never saw Roy ringside in Germany for a Dariusz fight. That tells you who was more interested, I think. I really feel Roy had no interest in fighting him if he didn't have to. And with an HBO contract and nobody outside of the hardcore fight fans even knowing who Dariusz was, he took the easy way out and chose to ignore him and pretend he didn't exist. It actually worked well for him. Most casual fans still don't understand the whole LHW scene and the fact that Roy was never an undisputed LHW champ.

[Easy-E]

Gonzalez beat a 35 yr old Dariusz, in a split decision.

Johnson beat a 35 yr old Roy, in a go-to-sleep-and-wake-up-next-month KO.

We can play this game all night.

If you actually look at their common fights, then Roy's performances were a little better, but not by THAT much...

Roy-
Hill KO 4
Hall TKO 11 (tested positive for roids for this bout)
Harmon KO 9
Griffin L DQ 9
Griffin TKO 1
Gonzalez UD 12

Dariusz-
Hill UD 12
Hall TKO 11
Hall TKO 10
Griffin TKO 4
Harmon KO 9
Gonzalez L SD 12

They should have fought, and I feel that the onus was much more on Roy, since Dariusz was the recognized, linear champion. I feel the champ shouldn't have to leave his country, and that the challenger should suck it up and do what is necessary to fight him if he wants to be a champion. It's really that simple.

Yes, they are both to blame, but moreso Roy. Dariusz even flew over ringside to one of Roy's fights. I never saw Roy ringside in Germany for a Dariusz fight. That tells you who was more interested, I think. I really feel Roy had no interest in fighting him if he didn't have to. And with an HBO contract and nobody outside of the hardcore fight fans even knowing who Dariusz was, he took the easy way out and chose to ignore him and pretend he didn't exist. It actually worked well for him. Most casual fans still don't understand the whole LHW scene and the fact that Roy was never an undisputed LHW champ.

I think its more important to listen to the Griffen KO 1 then the DQ which was absolute bull****. No excuse for the ref not stepping in and blocking rjj from giiffen.

[JuicyJuice]

Griffin was putting a schooling on Jones, but for the second fight he didn't have Eddie Futch training him.