Where does Manny rank all time?

[The Tase]

yeah , thats the problem with having all this atg rankings..unless youre bert sugar who's prolly the closest one to having seen it all , i dont think one could justify his atg list..

IF THERE IS NO FIGHT FOOTAGE OF YOUR FIGHTS NO WAY IN HELL COULD YOU
BE RANKED IN THE TOP 10 HELL EVEN IN THE TOP 50!!!!!


YOu cant rank a great fighter who has no fight footage over a great fighter with fight footage.

you just cant.




Its a matter of honesty and principle.

[IronDanHamza]

yeah , thats the problem with having all this atg rankings..unless youre bert sugar who's prolly the closest one to having seen it all , i dont think one could justify his atg list..

There's a few guys on here (and were) who are as old as Bert would have been today or older.

Not saying any names though

But hell, I'd be the first to admit I could never make a top 100 ATG list without scrambling my brain.

That's just a rough list I made there and not in any order.

I have a certain where or where abouts I would rank a certain fighter or in a certain range but that's as far as it goes.

[The Tase]

A lot of them have quantity of course but I'd say a lot of them also have quality.

As for Chavez Sr over Pacquaio, I agree it's arguable. Like I said, that's just how personal view on who I would likely have over Pacquaio. That's simply off the top of my head.

Lamotta, I also agree is up for debate but I would lean on Lamotta.

Arguello, and definitely Carlos Ortiz I would have over Pacquaio.

how in the world do you have arguello over pacquiao when arguello was unsuccessful in the higher weights as oppose to pacquiao who was actually successful in the higher weights. & who has arguello beaten that's better than marquez, morales, & barerra?

[IronDanHamza]

George Benton? Smoothest/calmest fighter aside from James Toney that I've seen. Excellent offense/set-ups. Never wasted movement. Maneuvered you t where he wanted you with the most minute of feet movement. Defense was impeccable.

Ricardo Lopez? The cleanest technical textbook fighter I've seen with incredible defense and offense and adjusted to absolutely anything.

I would place either of those two fighters right at or slightly above Whitaker and Marquez. Mind you I'm not talking accomplishments I'm talking skill set related to being a smart boxer and great tactician.

I don't think George Benton is in that class at all.

He had skills but he wasn't a great fighter.

George Benton is one of my faviourites though. His boxing brain was great, but as a fighter, he wasn't great. Good though, no doubt.

[libraporlibra]

Top 80 all time, top 30 Asian boxer of all time.

[I Love Jesus!]

I've seen Joe Gans fight.

Sadly, not seen Rosenbloom or Williams fight other than the newly discovered 10 second clip of Williams.

Maybe one day.




Not high and mighty, mate.

Like I said, just who I would likely and personally put over him.

A list of those are up for debate, no doubt.



Nor can I.

so what it don't matter if you seen them fight or not. If you do your research and know their accomplishments then you can accurately rank them.

[Barn]

somewhere between 1 and 1.5.

[lparm]

39 who I personally would likely have infront of him? Off the top of my head;

Ray Robinson
Harry Greb
Sam Langford
Ezzard Charles
Henry Armstrong
Archie Moore
Carlos Monzon
Muhammad Ali
Joe Louis
Willie Pep
Pernell Whitaker
Joe Gans
Benny Leonard
Ray Leoanrd
Alexis Arguello
Bob Fitzsimmons
Emile Griffith
Mickey Walker
Eder Jofre
Jose Napoles
Maxie Rosenbloom
Gene Tunney
Jimmy Mclarnin
Roberto Duran
Barney Ross
Joe Walcott
Tommy Hearns
Marvin Hagler
Holman Williams
Charley Burley
Kid Gavilan
Sandy Saddler
Billy Conn
Carlos Oritz
Terry McGovern
**** Tiger
Harold Johnson
Julio Cesar Chavez
Jake Lamotta.

I would not critique each name because frankly there are some that accomplished more than Manny but let's pick of a few selected names.

The original slapper - Maxie. He was a slap and move fighter with very little power that fought in a decent but not great lt heavy era and barely held onto the title in several defenses. So no he's far from as accomplished as Manny.

Barney. An excellent fighter with a solid resume but as proven against Armstrong he wilted under pressure. I'd pick a prime Manny over him because Ross was there to hit. Good record won at multiple weights but not as huge a jump as Manny did fly to welter winning 8 legit titles along the way.

Holman. Another very good fighter but like Maxie was a hit and mover from historical accounts. He would lack the power to keep Manny off. But as far as accomplishments he never won a world title and his record is littered with wins over the same guys over and over. Not as accomplished.

Conn. Head to head the larger more powerful conn obviously would be a mismatch but his accomplishments were less than 1 year as lt heavy champ in a weak era with his most notable fight being a KO by Louis.

Harold. Another guy physically bigger than Manny but this is about accomplishments so lets look. He was lt heavy champ for 2 years and his only KO wins was against no hoper journeymen. Manny has better accomplishments.

I might return to this because it's fun picking these the lesser accomplished guys resumes apart but for now I'm done.

Notable fighters I'd say are better than Manny: SRR, SRL, Ali, Roberto, Greb, Hagler, Louis, Benny.

That might be it. Yeah he's top 10 p4p 100% in my book but lower half of the 10.

[IronDanHamza]

how in the world do you have arguello over pacquiao when arguello was unsuccessful in the higher weights as oppose to pacquiao who was actually successful in the higher weights. & who has arguello beaten that's better than marquez, morales, & barerra?

Well, I wouldn't say just for the simple fact he was more succesful over a certain amount of weights in comparison automatically means he's a greater fighter.

Arguello was quite succesful accross a set of weights himself.

I would definitely say Pacquaio's win over Barrera is better than anything Arguello did in his career.

But, Arguello has a lot of depth to his. He cleaned out the divisions he was in against a lot of very underrated fighters this day and age.

I will admit though, I have a slight bias toward Arguello as he is my favourite ever fighter.

[IronDanHamza]

I would critique each name because frankly there are some that accomplished more than Manny but let's pick of a few selected names.

The original slapper - Maxie. He was a slap and move fighter with very little power that fought in a decent but not great lt heavy era and barely held onto the title in several defenses. So no he's far from as accomplished as Manny.

Barney. An excellent fighter with a solid resume but as proven against Armstrong he wilted under pressure. I'd pick a prime Manny over him because Ross was there to hit. Good record won at multiple weights but not as huge a jump as Manny did fly to welter winning 8 legit titles along the way.

Holman. Another very good fighter but like Maxie was a hit and mover from historical accounts. He would lack the power to keep Manny off. But as far as accomplishments he never won a world title and his record is littered with wins over the same guys over and over. Not as accomplished.

Conn. Head to head the larger more powerful conn obviously would be a mismatch but his accomplishments were less than 1 year as lt heavy champ in a weak era with his most notable fight being a KO by Louis.

Harold. Another guy physically bigger than Manny but this is about accomplishments so lets look. He was lt heavy champ for 2 years and his only KO wins was against no hoper journeymen. Manny has better accomplishments.

I might return to this because it's fun picking these guys resumes apart but for now I'm done.

Notable fighters I'd say are better than Manny: SRR, SRL, Ali, Roberto, Greb, Hagler, Louis, Benny.

That might be it. Yeah he's top 10 p4p 100% in my book but lower half of the 10.

You're way off on those "breakdowns", mate.

I would say everyone of those fighters; Ross, Rosenbloom, Williams, Johnson and Conn have better resumes than Pacquaio.

There are fighters on that list that are absolutely up for debate. But those 5 certainly aren't included.