Where does Manny rank all time?

[SplitSecond]

what's the criteria for being an ATG? beating the top ranked fighters? even if the division/fighters actually sucks, atleast they are the best of the bunch right? huh? eh? percieved skills?

[crold1]

Roy Jones at SMW.

Also ranked very high H2H at LHW and MW.

People are starting to give Wladimir some love as well and putting him on the border of the top 10.

Jones at SMW doesn't really count because the class didn't exist as we know it until the 80s. Agree at LHW (I have him 12 last time I did it). MW H2H is not much to me. Fantasy fight stuff isn't as much about the tangible. That was a class where he was still getting his feet wet and grew out just as he hit a title. In another era of day of weigh ins, he may have had to move up earlier. I honestly don't think he does as well H2H with the great Middleweights because he was still learning there and guys like Hagler, Monzon, etc. were fully formed and seasoned, peak, at 60.

[IronDanHamza]

Jones at SMW doesn't really count because the class didn't exist as we know it until the 80s. Agree at LHW (I have him 12 last time I did it). MW H2H is not much to me. Fantasy fight stuff isn't as much about the tangible. That was a class where he was still getting his feet wet and grew out just as he hit a title. In another era of day of weigh ins, he may have had to move up earlier. I honestly don't think he does as well H2H with the great Middleweights because he was still learning there and guys like Hagler, Monzon, etc. were fully formed and seasoned, peak, at 60.

Agreed.

But, Roy Jones is generally ranked quite highly and he's of course a "modern fighter".

[CHOWWOKKA]

Pacquiao gets ranked 1 MINIMUM. If he ever decides to take random drug tests then he would be ranked number 1 in the fictional movie characters category.

1 - Manny Pacquiao
2 - Predator
3 - Terminator
4 - Rambo
5 - The Duke

[-PBP-]

Why is being one of the 50 greatest fighters of all time so insulting? Hell, I would think being top 100 would be an honor.

[The Tase]

Reaching?

And how doesn't it? It literally does exactly that

You're saying; "Only old school fighters get ranked highly to preserve history"

Yet, Duran, who isn't an "old school" fighter, which you yourself have admitted, is universally ranked in the Top 5-10 and above many "old school" fighters.

How does this not conflict your theory?

i said a lot of old school athletes in all sports get put up at the very highest of lists just to preserve history.

i never said only.

Duran being ranked highly and rightfully so doesnt erase or contradict my theory that old school atheltes (1960s & below) get ranked highly because of preservation of history despite no footage and playing in a athletically inferior era.


dont most old school athletes dominate the top of rankings in sports especially boxing?

Just look at your list for example.

how does having one modern fighter rightfully ranked contradict that?

[crold1]

Agreed.

But, Roy Jones is generally ranked quite highly and he's of course a "modern fighter".

Floyd and Manny will be ranked with the best of all time when they're done, somewhere top 50 (high praise, period). Floyd will always have a strong place at 130. Pac's going to be hard to rate in a weight class though I could see a case for top ten 130. If he beat Floyd at Welter (BIG IF), along with the Cotto and Clottey wins, he'd have at least a discussion point for top 25 at Welter.

Then there is Barrera, Marquez, and Morales, all of whom will be highly rated at 22 or 26. Wait forty years; we'll be hella old and kids will tell us we're being nostalgic.

If he keeps winning, the retrospective ratings for Donaire at Flyweight will explode.

[Barn]

Emmanuel Stewart's Top ten

1: Sugar Ray Robinson – “The best welterweight ever! A Phenomenal record at a time when records were real!”
2: Muhammad Ali – “Ali fought everybody, no matter what style.”
3: Henry Armstrong – “Fought in all those divisions and was robbed in middleweight title fight when they called it a draw”
4: Willy Pep – “Just a totally amazing fighter”
5: Joe Louis – “Exemplified the world Champion”
6: Marvellous Marvin Hagler – “The best middleweight ever, no doubt!”
7: George Foreman – “So smart in his own way, and so strong.”
8: Sam Langford – “Way before his time”
9: Manny Pacquiao – “Has gone through division after division after division! Just a phenomena”
10: Roberto Duran – “The best lightweight ever!”

Hagler and Foreman on that list make it ******ed regardless if Pacquiao is included or not.

Keep trying though!

[IronDanHamza]

Floyd and Manny will be ranked with the best of all time when they're done, somewhere top 50 (high praise, period). Floyd will always have a strong place at 130. Pac's going to be hard to rate in a weight class though I could see a case for top ten 130. If he beat Floyd at Welter (BIG IF), along with the Cotto and Clottey wins, he'd have at least a discussion point for top 25 at Welter.

Then there is Barrera, Marquez, and Morales, all of whom will be highly rated at 22 or 26. Wait forty years; we'll be hella old and kids will tell us we're being nostalgic.

If he keeps winning, the retrospective ratings for Donaire at Flyweight will explode.

Don't think I'll be here to tell stories in 40 years my friend but hears to hoping!

But agreed with everything.

Years down the line, all the new kids will be saying "You only rate Mayweather and Pacquaio so highly because you're nostalgic!"

[Barn]

i said a lot of old school athletes in all sports get put up at the very highest of lists just to preserve history.

i never said only.

Duran being ranked highly and rightfully so doesnt erase or contradict my theory that old school atheltes (1960s & below) get ranked highly because of preservation of history despite no footage and playing in a athletically inferior era.


dont most old school athletes dominate the top of rankings in sports especially boxing?

Just look at your list for example.

how does having one modern fighter rightfully ranked contradict that?

Well the reason for that is we can say for easiness boxing as we know it began in 1912.

That's 100 years, if you consider modern to be in the last 10 years then that's a 9:1 ratio of years.

That in turn means there is going to be about 1/10th of the greats coming out of this modern era.

It makes perfect mathematical sense.

As for the bolded that's irrelevant because most people don't judge greatness by the footage or skills.