So Pacman beats Martinez at 154, how??

[SplitSecond]

Maybe this day and age.

This day and age implying a fighter should fight a risky albeit largely bigger fighter becomes offensive for some reason.

I hate to bring in "the good old days" line but once upon a time when people had the chance to enhance their legacy drastically they would give up a large amount of weight. Especially when the fight was winnable for them against a fighter who is good but not great.

That being said, Pacquaio isn't ducking Martinez IMO if he doesn't take it, I understand why he may not want to take that fight at this point. It's understandable and he doesn't need it at this point.

What confuses me is people like yourself who get offended by the notion that Pacquaio should fight a bigger, risky fighter, for some reason.

what days were these where a fighter would come in at 10lb advantage of pure muscle and then blow up another 15lbs before fight night?

back in same day weigh ins you make the class your comfortable at, you dont go in dehydrated of most of your fluids just so you can barely make the limit like nowadays and then blow up 10lb's

but again, it doesn't become a big issue unless at the weigh in you are considerably more muscle bound than your opponet

[IronDanHamza]

what days were these where a fighter would come in at 10lb advantage of pure muscle and then blow up another 15lbs before fight night?

You're really going to suggest huge size disparities haven't happened in the sport?

The day's where Billy Conn, a Middleweight, was outweighed by around 20 Lbs, some say more by fighting argubaly the best Heavyweight in the history of the sport.

Could he have stayed at Light Heavyweight? He sure could.

But he thought he'd move up to an "Impossible" weight disadvantage and face a huge risk, yet winnable fight.


Would people have shunned Conn or accused him of ducking for staying at LHW? Of course not, why would they? It was a tough ask but he wanted to prove his greatness and attempt to enhance his already ATG Legacy.

He came up short but it gave it one hell of a go and was incredibley close to an overwhelming victory which would have enhanced his legacy.

I shudder to think the idea of the fans crying and branding people with insults for wanting Conn to enhance his legacy that much more because it's "unrealistic" and "not fair" because the size difference.

Again, though, that's just the difference between fans back then and the over-protective, whining *****es of fans we have today.

I mean, Charley Burley weighing in at 150 Lbs was outweighed 70 Lbs by J.D Turner for crying out loud.

They're are endless times in history were size disparites are huge.

Has the much smaller fighter lost a lot of those times? Sure, of course they have.

But there has been occasions where the smaller fighter has done the "impossible" and got the victory. These are the kind of risks that fighters take that make them great.

Pacquaio's not ducking Sergio Martinez in my opinion. But the fact that you are so reluctant for Pacquaio to fight Martinez at 154 because he's at a disadvantage despite the fact that it's a win that would elevate him to a whole new level of greatness is beyond me.

And the funniest part about it is it's a winnable fight for Pacquaio.

It's a fight where he could come to the ring at 148 and beat Martinez. That's how great I consider him to potentially be.

Even if he were to try it and lose, which of course is also possible considering he's at a disadvantage, it wouldn't even matter. The fact he's willing to take that kind of risk to enhance his legacy speaks for itself.

But you're so reluctant for him to lose for some reason you call anyone who merely want, not even demand, but just want him to take that risk an idiot.

Those idiots, who want boxers to take big risks that will enhance their legacy. How dare they? How are they want a fighter to take that risk meaningthey're at a disadvantage? That's not fair.

[SplitSecond]

im not gonna read all that, i read to the point you mentioned billy conn and see you should look over my post again, i edited it

same day weigh in, muscle + more fluids than nowadays

and billy conn is 6'1, who is this huge lightheavyweight he faced? reaching lightheavy at 6'1 should be no problem for most guys

edit: it's like this, when you watch old school fights(way back) you'll notice guys are alot softer than today, in terms of muscle definition, so you can't guage just how more muscle one guy is carrying more than the other as people have different levels of fat and one could be carrying more water weight etc

[IronDanHamza]

im not gonna read all that, i read to the point you mentioned billy conn and see you should look over my post again, i edited it

same day weigh in, muscle + more fluids than nowadays

and billy conn is 6'1, who is this huge lightheavyweight he faced? reaching lightheavy at 6'1 should be no problem for most guys

Don't blame you. I mean, who comes on a Boxing Forum to read?

You know Billy Conn weighed as low as 135 Lbs in his career, right?

Conn could have stayed at LHW, where he was at the time of his career but instead he thought he'd go and pursue the Heavyweight division to fight the HW Champion of the world and possibly the best HW ever.

Didn't have to.

He chose to be outweighed by 16 Lbs (officially, people say it was more) by Joe Louis and try and enhance his legacy despite the glaring risk involved and vast disadvantage.

But of course these day's the fans wouldn't want that to happen because it's not fair and unrealistic. Why should fighters take risks and fight bigger fighters? How dare people even entertain the idea of that.

Oh, right. So Pacquaio fighting Martinez at 154 would be unprecedented would it?

And even then, he still can win and enhance his legacy that much more by taking it.

But of course only an idiot would want to see that.

[HeroBando]

You're really going to suggest huge size disparities haven't happened in the sport?

The day's where Billy Conn, a Middleweight, was outweighed by around 20 Lbs, some say more by fighting argubaly the best Heavyweight in the history of the sport.

Could he have stayed at Light Heavyweight? He sure could.

But he thought he'd move up to an "Impossible" weight disadvantage and face a huge risk, yet winnable fight.


Would people have shunned Conn or accused him of ducking for staying at LHW? Of course not, why would they? It was a tough ask but he wanted to prove his greatness and attempt to enhance his already ATG Legacy.

He came up short but it gave it one hell of a go and was incredibley close to an overwhelming victory which would have enhanced his legacy.

I shudder to think the idea of the fans crying and branding people with insults for wanting Conn to enhance his legacy that much more because it's "unrealistic" and "not fair" because the size difference.

Again, though, that's just the difference between fans back then and the over-protective, whining *****es of fans we have today.

I mean, Charley Burley weighing in at 150 Lbs was outweighed 70 Lbs by J.D Turner for crying out loud.

They're are endless times in history were size disparites are huge.

Has the much smaller fighter lost a lot of those times? Sure, of course they have.

But there has been occasions where the smaller fighter has done the "impossible" and got the victory. These are the kind of risks that fighters take that make them great.

Pacquaio's not ducking Sergio Martinez in my opinion. But the fact that you are so reluctant for Pacquaio to fight Martinez at 154 because he's at a disadvantage despite the fact that it's a win that would elevate him to a whole new level of greatness is beyond me.

And the funniest part about it is it's a winnable fight for Pacquaio.

It's a fight where he could come to the ring at 148 and beat Martinez. That's how great I consider him to potentially be.

Even if he were to try it and lose, which of course is also possible considering he's at a disadvantage, it wouldn't even matter. The fact he's willing to take that kind of risk to enhance his legacy speaks for itself.

But you're so reluctant for him to lose for some reason you call anyone who merely want, not even demand, but just want him to take that risk an idiot.

Those idiots, who want boxers to take big risks that will enhance their legacy. How dare they? How are they want a fighter to take that risk meaningthey're at a disadvantage? That's not fair.

Pac beating Marco Huck would be even bigger for his legacy, right? Or at least a LHW bum titlist like Shumenov, Pac could probably dart in and out all night, would have him tripping all over. But it seems Pac doesn't dare to be great, does he?

How about Sergio fighting Ward, you feel the same way here? It's a smaller size difference, plus the smaller guy doesn't have to worry about the other guy's power. Is his "it's not a duck but..." better cause it's not a winnable fight for him, in your opinion?

[IronDanHamza]

edit: it's like this, when you watch old school fights(way back) you'll notice guys are alot softer than today, in terms of muscle definition, so you can't guage just how more muscle one guy is carrying more than the other as people have different levels of fat and one could be carrying more water weight etc

I agree, I mean Harold Johnson has such a soft body compared to the fighters of today.

[BoxingGenius27]

Pac beating Marco Huck would be even bigger for his legacy, right? Or at least a LHW bum titlist like Shumenov, Pac could probably dart in and out all night, would have him tripping all over. But it seems Pac doesn't dare to be great, does he?

Why do guys like you have to be overly dramatic and throw things completely out of whack. I know you're joking and all, but the comparison's are silly.

[IronDanHamza]

Pac beating Marco Huck would be even bigger for his legacy, right? Or at least a LHW bum titlist like Shumenov, Pac could probably dart in and out all night, would have him tripping all over. But it seems Pac doesn't dare to be great, does he?

How about Sergio fighting Ward, you feel the same way here? It's a smaller size difference, plus the smaller guy doesn't have to worry about the other guy's power. Is his "it's not a duck but..." better cause it's not a winnable fight for him, in your opinion?

Yeah, because Pacquaio and Marco Huck have campaigned at or near the same weight classes.

That is the epitome of an unrealistic fight. If people were asking for Pacquaio to fight Marco Huck then I would understand. This is Martinez, who can make 154, a weight limit that Pacquaio has fought 4 Lbs under.

I don't see why Martinez and Ward can't fight. Of course Martinez would be at a size disadvantage but can Martinez win that fight? Why not. Bigger upsets have happened and I'd pay to see it.

I don't think Martinez would win but does that mean I should be offended that others would like to see it happen? Nah.

Again, Pacquiao is not ducking Martinez IMO neither is Martinez ducking Ward IMO but would I love to see Pac fight Martinez just as much as I'd like to see Martinez challenge himself against a bigger fighter in Ward.

I don't see the problem here.

[Bushbaby]

Why do guys like you have to be overly dramatic and throw things completely out of whack. I know you're joking and all, but the comparison's are silly.

I think that he's serious though.

[F l i c k e r]

Because Martinez will be the Argentine version of Oscar De La Hoya.