So Pacman beats Martinez at 154, how??

[Bushbaby]

That's fine if you want to find out mate.

The thing is, when people say Pac can beat Sergio and lay down how Pac will fair coz you told them to do so, you don't take them serious, you said so yourself earlier ain't it? So why create a thread if your sold into Pac not winning?

I'll just leave it that we can agree to disagree.

Man, my bad for the serious comment bro. However Pacman does not dart in and out against a mobile opponent, (which Martinez most definately is). It just seems like the same exact recycled line his fans use to discribe how he'll win all the time, when he doesn't do that against fighters that provide angles rather than plowing straight ahead bro.

[Kilrain]

Margo was weight drained and should have been 175 on the night , it makes sooooooo much difference when you have to be Mannys special weight for the weigh-in .

And go and do some research about who was bigger in all of Mannys fights pre Diaz , and Mannys special CWs dont count for nothing but weight draining a guy that he will duck without it .

Manny would get KTFO by Sergio , and besides Manny ducks Cotto without a CW no way the Duckman gets in with Sergio !

I love how haters make such a huge issue of the Cotto catchweight. 2 lbs ain't ****. Cotto had a long hard training camp and looked spectacular at the weigh-in. He contested admirably on the night and was ahead on many people's scorecards after 5 rounds. The problem? A firefight ignited and Manny's speed and power prevailed. 'Catchweight' is a blatant excuse. That Manny should be so routinely discredited by haters for this punishing performance is a sign of pure jealousy or disgruntlement. Remember, Manny had only had 1 fight at the welterweight limit, and was/is still more in the mould of a 140 lb'er. The fact that he was willing to add 5 more lbs of muscle to his frame to take on Cotto, who by comparison only had to lose 2 more lbs than normal, and had a lengthy professional training camp, indicates a great risk, not the 'con' that you morons and haters portray it as.

You guys seem to forget that Cotto was a jr welterweight just a couple of years before the Pacquiao fight. It's not like he was boiling down to a weight he hadn't fought at since he was a skinny 15 year old.

[Bushbaby]

Martinez is way bigger, so the fact that you're even mentioning Pacquiao fighting him, albeit to scoff at the notion, should indicate that you rate Pacquiao highly.

The Pacquiao who demolished Margarito would have a fair chance against Martinez, I believe. How? Blazing in and out flurries, constant movement, raw power. He beat the crap out of Cotto and Margarito, both of whom are big men who walk around maybe just 5 or at most 10 lbs lighter than Martinez.

If Darren Barker and Matthew Macklin can give Martinez all he can handle, an on-song Manny, who's constantly moving and throwing those lightning-quick combinations, can do so too, particularly at 154 lbs where Martinez, despite DiBella's BS, would invariably be weakened.

Ultimately I'd favour Martinez due to his size, and the fact that he punches very strongly, but I wouldn't rule a fired-up Manny out. You'd be a fool to. Round after round went by on Saturday night where Sergio didn't, or couldn't, pull the trigger like he wanted to. And that was against Matt Macklin, who while a very capable fighter, possesses neither the speed, athleticism or deceptive punching power (the kind that put usually iron-chinned Shane on his a$$) that the Pacman carries. But Sergio shouldn't waste his breath calling Manny out because Manny fights not one but TWO weight classes below him.

When was the last time Pacman tracked down & cut off the ring against a mobile & fast opponent?

Now add the usable size, speed & power that Martinez has.

[Roman Moreno]

I think Pacquiao is overall the better fighter than Martinez. I just think they're worlds apart. Pac is just on another level. But, I don't see Pac beating Martinez at 154. I think Sergio size would be too much. Martinez is better than Margarito so his size would effect the outcome much more so.

But, skill for skill, style for style, talent for talent, pound for pound Pac>>>Martinez IMO. How I feel personally.

[Kilrain]

Margo was weight drained and should have been 175 on the night , it makes sooooooo much difference when you have to be Mannys special weight for the weigh-in .

And go and do some research about who was bigger in all of Mannys fights pre Diaz , and Mannys special CWs dont count for nothing but weight draining a guy that he will duck without it .

Manny would get KTFO by Sergio , and besides Manny ducks Cotto without a CW no way the Duckman gets in with Sergio !

When was the last time Pacman tracked down & cut off the ring against a mobile & fast opponent?

Now add the usable size, speed & power that Martinez has.

When was the last time Martinez fought a fighter as quick as Manny?

He never has, but then, of the two of us, I can accept that that's not necessarily relevant.

I suppose Manny hasn't fought a mobile or quick opponent his whole career? I guess the only mobile and quick opponent he's ever fought was Marquez, huh, who coincidentally he struggled against?

I guess Barrera wasn't remotely quick or mobile, just a flat-nosed bruiser when Manny decimated him in his prime (Barrera was in the top 5 p4p at the time, some people had him as high as no.2)? Cotto, despite the fervent brainwashing carried out by Manny detractors, was and is both quick-fisted and fleet-footed, a fact either ignored by Manny's critics or counteracted by nonsensical excuses about a weight-drained Cotto (even though the fight was only 2 lbs lighter than 147 lbs - the equivalent of, say, a cheeseburger and fries a day before the weigh-in).

Also, I guess Manny didn't cut off the ring when he knocked down Marquez - a Hall of Famer and one of the finest boxer-punchers to ever lace them up - no less than FOUR times?

[Kilrain]

When was the last time Pacman tracked down & cut off the ring against a mobile & fast opponent?

Now add the usable size, speed & power that Martinez has.

And besides, the point is moot. Martinez wouldn't skirt around the ring against Pacquiao. Being the bigger man (by a considerable margin), he would naturally use his speed and agility but he would be on the front-foot and Manny might bludgeon him with counters as he has done on many occasions. It's obvious from Martinez's last two fights that his reflexes aren't exactly cat-like. He can be caught, he can go to sleep and Manny, whether you like him or not, is one of the quickest fighters in the world with a ton of power.

To reiterate, I'd pick Martinez to win. He's way bigger and very talented, but to rule out a Pacquiao victory is dumb.

[Bushbaby]

When was the last time Martinez fought a fighter as quick as Manny?

He never has, but then, of the two of us, I can accept that that's not necessarily relevant.

I suppose Manny hasn't fought a mobile or quick opponent his whole career? I guess the only mobile and quick opponent he's ever fought was Marquez, huh, who coincidentally he struggled against?

I guess Barrera wasn't remotely quick or mobile, just a flat-nosed bruiser when Manny decimated him in his prime (Barrera was in the top 5 p4p at the time, some people had him as high as no.2)? Cotto, despite the fervent brainwashing carried out by Manny detractors, was and is both quick-fisted and fleet-footed, a fact either ignored by Manny's critics or counteracted by nonsensical excuses about a weight-drained Cotto (even though the fight was only 2 lbs lighter than 147 lbs - the equivalent of, say, a cheeseburger and fries a day before the weigh-in).

Also, I guess Manny didn't cut off the ring when he knocked down Marquez - a Hall of Famer and one of the finest boxer-punchers to ever lace them up - no less than FOUR times?

How you sit there & say that 2 lb's means nothing tells me all I need to know. Understand this, training down to 147 is not the same as not being able to weight no more than 145, learn this then return.

[Brockton Lip]

I'd really like to know how some think so, I mean really. We're talking about a Pacman that wanted to fight an early 2012 version of Cotto, but no higher than a mannyweight of 148.

We're talking about a Pacman that couldn't even beat a lightweight at a mannyweight of 144 convincingly.

We're talking about a Pacman that struggled with a shot Mosley proven shot 2 fights & an entire year before.

Now while Martinez isn't fighting world beaters lately, he's still bigger, & better than any fighter that Pacman has beaten over 130. (Excluding the great Marquez) who pfp all time is better than Martinez, (just not at welterweight vs Martinez at 154).

So the question is: How does a Pacman that can't beat shot, or tiny fighters, beat a bigger, stronger, fast & elite fighter like Martinez?

This post is just as biased as the ones that you are hating against. Its not much better.

With that said, Pacquiao could beat Martinez but one would clearly have to favor Martinez to win.

[Bushbaby]

And besides, the point is moot. Martinez wouldn't skirt around the ring against Pacquiao. Being the bigger man (by a considerable margin), he would naturally use his speed and agility but he would be on the front-foot and Manny might bludgeon him with counters as he has done on many occasions. It's obvious from Martinez's last two fights that his reflexes aren't exactly cat-like. He can be caught, he can go to sleep and Manny, whether you like him or not, is one of the quickest fighters in the world with a ton of power.

To reiterate, I'd pick Martinez to win. He's way bigger and very talented, but to rule out a Pacquiao victory is dumb.

Does Pacman have cat-like reflexes?? He gets hit more than Martinez does. But yes we shall both agree Pacman gets whipped. Pacman has tons of power when you stand in front of him, his punch output is sliced in half with any kind of movement. Whether it be from a shot Sugar Shane or an elite (although tiny) Marquez.

[FeFist]

Martinez would beat Pacquiao but that hardly matters. Pound for pound he is an inferior fighter to Pacquiao he simply has enough skills to make use of his size advantage.

I've been saying the same thing for some time now but Martinez is held to a lower standard than other elites. I'd like to see Pacquiao and Mayweather fight Martinez because it is a challenge for them, greats should take on challenges and I would give them credit for beating Martinez.

That being said I have lost respect for Martinez, at the end of the day he is trying to sign a fight with fighters 2 divisions beneath him. If he wants a challenge he should move up a weight class and fight Ward or Bute. Well I haven't lost respect for him, I just acknowledge the fact that he is no different to all the other fighters out there, high risk low reward.