Has paquiao really gotten that much better???

[gatorDelux]

being less reckless and having a better right hook isnt really an evolution

people assume im saying he hasnt gotten better

he has definatly but he isnt a completly different fighter and the fact that he is fighting these slower guys makes it look like he is a different fighter

[tatangb45]

The only way to win a boxing match is with offense. you could be Willie Pep and dodge 29 out of 30 punches in a round, but if you don't land a punch yourself, you're not winning a round.

As I stated in my other post, Mosley is not an effective boxer from the outside range. He wasn't going to effectively score against a man who keeps hopping for 12 rounds. Mosley simply does not have the stamina for that.

What Mosley did successfully show was that if one were to actually box Pacquiao is not as effective as he would normally be if one were to stand and trade.

Mosley has NEVER had better than average footwork. NEVER! Look at his fights at LW, WW and jrMW. He's never been a real mover. He's never taken advantage of angles the way that a Marquez or Mayweather have. He simply used to overwhelm guys with his tremendous speed and power. Especially at LW.

What does that have to do with anything?

Mosley is and pretty much has always been a plodder. He throws a lackluster jab to just get it seen, he shakes with a herky jerky motion as a means of feinting, and once he gets inside he lets loose with hooks and uppercuts. Watch nearly ANY Mosley fight and you'd see that. You should actually already know that.

With that said, Mosley boxed Pacquiao from a distance that he has no real success at. Vernon Forrest kept Mosley at that distance and was able to land a punch that almost KO'd Mosley. Remember that? Forrest was able to nullify Mosley's speed by controlling the distance with his JAB. To quote the late great fighter"

"Speed ain't everything. A well placed jab can shut speed down".

Mosley controlled the distance and fought where Pacquiao wasn't comfortable. Besides the Margarito fight, I have never seen Mosley use his jab as effectively as he did against Pacquiao.

Most of you people on this site have no idea of what's what. Do you even know what running in the ring looks like? If anyone wants to see what running looks like, you should go watch BHOP vs Morrade Hakkar. You will see what running really looks like in that fights.

That is not what Mosley did. Mosley was landing and was making it a boxing match. 90% of you were just upset because you expected Mosley to stand and trade ... and when he didn't, you all just labeled him a pusssy because you have no idea about what the science in the sweet science really is.

Most of you think that winning by slugging is the highest form of boxing. That's a novice understanding of the game. Boxing is a game of hitting while not getting hit. That's the objective and always has been. Its only that the best know this and execute that objective in the ring. That isn't the only way to win in boxing, but it is definitely the most ideal way for a boxer to win if he wants to keep his health and longevity intact.

For a man who has not found success boxing that way, Mosley gave a good showing but more importantly, he showed that by using that approach, one could greatly limit what Pacquiao was able to do.

That isn't an argument that suggests that Mosley made it a close match or even competitive. As I said, in order to score you have to be more offensive than defensive. Mosley did NOT do that. So if any of the peasants here would like to argue about something I'm not suggesting, go right ahead.

Clottey did the same. Clottey lost to Pacquiao because of the same reason: He did NOT engage his opponent enough to win rounds. However Clottey did use an approach where *******s would have sworn the power of Pacquiao would have stopped Joshua. It didn't even bruise Clottey.

Now, if you look at Pacquiao's face, it was tore up. It wasn't the worse face I've seen, but it certainly was the most I've seen Pacquiao beaten up since Morales and Marquez.

Pacquiao has no answers for a solid defense. Clottey showed that.

And Pacquiao has few if any answers for a boxer who boxes behind a solid jab and moves. Mosley showed us that.

Pacquiao beat both fighters because he constantly attacked, which won him rounds. He did not stop or really hurt either man though. And considering that both men he beat were plodders, I feel as though they showed a bunch without coming close to winning.

Now that will make sense to some(10%), and no sense to most of you(90%).

You'll only get out of what I wrote that which you allow yourself to consider.

For posting a novel, you get an A for effort, nothing more.
Here, take a look at the facts:

Mosley had an easier time connecting on Floyd than on Pac;
1)He landed 92 total and 46 power punches on Floyd.
2)He did 66 total and 22 power punches on Pac.
And, Pac connected 177 power punches on Mosley compared to Floyd who did 123.

Mosley was never a threat to Pac, was knocked down and was begging his corner to stop the fight.
He staggered Floyd, and at that moment, if he had the speed and stamina of Pac, he could have given Floyd his first loss.

[BuckToothed]

I skipped most of your diatribe...

Mosley has NEVER had better than average footwork. NEVER! Look at his fights at LW, WW and jrMW. He's never been a real mover. He's never taken advantage of angles the way that a Marquez or Mayweather have. He simply used to overwhelm guys with his tremendous speed and power. Especially at LW.

So in essence what he did is therefore RUN? I meant since he was never a mover and all, he can't possibly be doing it right.

Pacquiao has no answers for a solid defense. Clottey showed that.

1100+ punches thrown is an answer. You think Floyd could have done better?
What exactly are you looking for here? Who has done that to Clottey to say someone did it better than Pac?

[ali100]

Hes still the same fighter.In the mosley fight he couldnt hit him after the second round,You know why? because hes the same fighter jumps in with punches that u can see a mile away.Mayweather doesnt have to jump in with punches he can just sneak them in while cutting the ring off.he does the sane head movment he been doing for years.If they meet it will be like tyson vs lewis accept the jabs will be lead right hands.and then tie him up when he starts throwing.easy work

[gatorDelux]

Hes still the same fighter.In the mosley fight he couldnt hit him after the second round,You know why? because hes the same fighter jumps in with punches that u can see a mile away.Mayweather doesnt have to jump in with punches he can just sneak them in while cutting the ring off.he does the sane head movment he been doing for years.If they meet it will be like tyson vs lewis accept the jabs will be lead right hands.and then tie him up when he starts throwing.easy work

he is a little better

but he could have closed the show if he didnt lung and did cut of the ring

but he still has some of the same mistakes

hisis why i think marquez will make somewhat of a fight of it even if he does get ko eventally

[Carpe Diem]

For posting a novel, you get an A for effort, nothing more.
Here, take a look at the facts:

Mosley had an easier time connecting on Floyd than on Pac; Because he threw more punches total against Floyd
1)He landed 92 total and 46 power punches on Floyd and threw 122 punches more.
2)He did 66 total and 22 power punches on Pac and threw 122 punches less.
And, Pac connected 177 power punches on Mosley compared to Floyd who did 123 because Manny threw 250 total punches more .

Mosley was never a threat to Pac, was knocked down and was begging his corner to stop the fight.
He staggered Floyd, and at that moment, if he had the speed and stamina of Pac, he could have given Floyd his first loss.

Fixed. I don't know why Pac fans likes to gloats around about Manny landed 16 more total punches on Mosley than Floyd did on Floyd. If Anything, Manny should've landed more than just 16 punches more on Mosley than Floyd did on Mosley because he threw 250 more punches total than Floyd.

[Sin City]

Pacfans believe the myth that he is a completely different fighter now, than he was then. When pressed on this issue, they often resort to the addition of the right hand as proof of his "evolution".

When anybody who's truly watched his career closely knows his right hand was there as early as the first Morales fight.

He's the same fighter he was then. Only bigger, and with more confidence and experience to draw upon.

I disagree with this. sure he used it here and there, but he couldn't really do much with it.

if you watch the second Marquez fight and compare it to the first, Pacquiao shows much improvement from the first. he no longer just lunges in completely and is more cautious, he takes his time and doesn't just wing one twos. you see a few more right hand hooks.

then if you watch from Marquez on.. his head movement gets better, his footwork does too.. and he starts correctly placing his punches. before he would knock guys down with grazing punches but now he's hitting them on the button and hurting them clean.

I watched his fights from Solis to Mosley back to back and you could tell his gradual improvement. I wasn't much of a fan of Mannys before because I thought he was one dimensional.. now he just leaves me in awe.

[noStylez]

Fixed. I don't know why Pac fans likes to gloats around about Manny landed 16 more total punches on Mosley than Floyd did on Floyd. If Anything, Manny should've landed more than just 16 punches more on Mosley than Floyd did on Mosley because he threw 250 more punches total than Floyd.

I don't know how you can land more by turning and running, going toe to toe you'd land more for sure.

[Sin City]

Let's do an experiment. Show me anywhere in his early career-JMM II where he was able to counter as effectively, slip punches as well, and turn his opponent as this clip:



Then show me (same parameters, early career-JMM II) where he had as great footwork, head movement, defense, and overall ring generalship as here:




And of course, the developed right hand, now just as devastating as his left:




The footwork, head movement, variety of punches, ring generalship are vastly improved IMO.

But like I said, if I'm wrong, it'll show November 12th

when Pac learned how to counter punch, it was game over for his opponents. he's just as devastating as Floyd with the counters now.

[Carpe Diem]

I don't know how you can land more by turning and running, going toe to toe you'd land more for sure.

Absolutely. Shane threw less total punches against Manny, and he landed less. He threw more total punches against Floyd, and he landed more. The more you throw, the more you'll hit your target.