Has paquiao really gotten that much better???

[Carpe Diem]

when Pac learned how to counter punch, it was game over for his opponents. he's just as devastating as Floyd with the counters now.

[IMG]http://i577.***********.com/albums/ss212/ritaoreilly/GIFs/53nrjo.gif[/IMG]

[BuckToothed]

Originally Posted by tatangb45 View Post
For posting a novel, you get an A for effort, nothing more.
Here, take a look at the facts:

Mosley had an easier time connecting on Floyd than on Pac; Because he threw more punches total against Floyd
1)He landed 92 total and 46 power punches on Floyd and threw 122 punches more.
2)He did 66 total and 22 power punches on Pac and threw 122 punches less.
And, Pac connected 177 power punches on Mosley compared to Floyd who did 123 because Manny threw 250 total punches more .

Mosley was never a threat to Pac, was knocked down and was begging his corner to stop the fight.
He staggered Floyd, and at that moment, if he had the speed and stamina of Pac, he could have given Floyd his first loss.

---------------------------------------
Fixed. I don't know why Pac fans likes to gloats around about Manny landed 16 more total punches on Mosley than Floyd did on Floyd. If Anything, Manny should've landed more than just 16 punches more on Mosley than Floyd did on Mosley because he threw 250 more punches total than Floyd.

At the end of the day, that's 54 extra power punches Mosley had to eat, he don't care that Floyd landed with a better percentage.
Why would he, that's 54 power punches each powerful enough to knock him the **** out!

That's what I call putting 25% accuracy into perspective.

[Doc Holliday]

The only way to win a boxing match is with offense. you could be Willie Pep and dodge 29 out of 30 punches in a round, but if you don't land a punch yourself, you're not winning a round.

As I stated in my other post, Mosley is not an effective boxer from the outside range. He wasn't going to effectively score against a man who keeps hopping for 12 rounds. Mosley simply does not have the stamina for that.

What Mosley did successfully show was that if one were to actually box Pacquiao is not as effective as he would normally be if one were to stand and trade.

Mosley has NEVER had better than average footwork. NEVER! Look at his fights at LW, WW and jrMW. He's never been a real mover. He's never taken advantage of angles the way that a Marquez or Mayweather have. He simply used to overwhelm guys with his tremendous speed and power. Especially at LW.

What does that have to do with anything?

Mosley is and pretty much has always been a plodder. He throws a lackluster jab to just get it seen, he shakes with a herky jerky motion as a means of feinting, and once he gets inside he lets loose with hooks and uppercuts. Watch nearly ANY Mosley fight and you'd see that. You should actually already know that.

With that said, Mosley boxed Pacquiao from a distance that he has no real success at. Vernon Forrest kept Mosley at that distance and was able to land a punch that almost KO'd Mosley. Remember that? Forrest was able to nullify Mosley's speed by controlling the distance with his JAB. To quote the late great fighter"

"Speed ain't everything. A well placed jab can shut speed down".

Mosley controlled the distance and fought where Pacquiao wasn't comfortable. Besides the Margarito fight, I have never seen Mosley use his jab as effectively as he did against Pacquiao.

Most of you people on this site have no idea of what's what. Do you even know what running in the ring looks like? If anyone wants to see what running looks like, you should go watch BHOP vs Morrade Hakkar. You will see what running really looks like in that fights.

That is not what Mosley did. Mosley was landing and was making it a boxing match. 90% of you were just upset because you expected Mosley to stand and trade ... and when he didn't, you all just labeled him a pusssy because you have no idea about what the science in the sweet science really is.

Most of you think that winning by slugging is the highest form of boxing. That's a novice understanding of the game. Boxing is a game of hitting while not getting hit. That's the objective and always has been. Its only that the best know this and execute that objective in the ring. That isn't the only way to win in boxing, but it is definitely the most ideal way for a boxer to win if he wants to keep his health and longevity intact.

For a man who has not found success boxing that way, Mosley gave a good showing but more importantly, he showed that by using that approach, one could greatly limit what Pacquiao was able to do.

That isn't an argument that suggests that Mosley made it a close match or even competitive. As I said, in order to score you have to be more offensive than defensive. Mosley did NOT do that. So if any of the peasants here would like to argue about something I'm not suggesting, go right ahead.

Clottey did the same. Clottey lost to Pacquiao because of the same reason: He did NOT engage his opponent enough to win rounds. However Clottey did use an approach where *******s would have sworn the power of Pacquiao would have stopped Joshua. It didn't even bruise Clottey.

Now, if you look at Pacquiao's face, it was tore up. It wasn't the worse face I've seen, but it certainly was the most I've seen Pacquiao beaten up since Morales and Marquez.

Pacquiao has no answers for a solid defense. Clottey showed that.

And Pacquiao has few if any answers for a boxer who boxes behind a solid jab and moves. Mosley showed us that.

Pacquiao beat both fighters because he constantly attacked, which won him rounds. He did not stop or really hurt either man though. And considering that both men he beat were plodders, I feel as though they showed a bunch without coming close to winning.

Now that will make sense to some(10%), and no sense to most of you(90%).

You'll only get out of what I wrote that which you allow yourself to consider.

what..........

[Brother Jay]

Yes he has improved. His right hand is much more accurate and dangerous now than it has ever been. It seems he now does more damage with the right than the left. He is also off balance a lot less often now then he used to be. Overall I would agree he is still the same fighter he was three or four years ago but we can't act as if he has not improved whatsoever.

Well I have considered you're opinions and respectfully disagree, Woo.

I do see that Pacquiao has learned to throw different punches but how significant are the new punches that he's learned to throw? Are they winning him more fights against better competition?

You cannot honestly answer that question because Pacquiao has fought bigger names but not necessarily better competition at the point in which he inked his deal with his last 7 opponents.

You yourself are admitting that Pacquiao is the same fighter. If the adjustments or growth that you are citing were as significant as you suggest then there would be no reason for you to have admitted as much.

Like Iron Mike Tyson said "Everyone has a game plan until they get hit". I cited that quote to say that head movement and Pac's right hand are cute when he's the hunter, but once he gets hit he goes right back to the jab, jab, straight left hand. Manny hasn't made any real adjustments. Anyone can come out and show different things as long as no one puts the pressure to their asss.

But once he feels that fire on that asss, the true boxer shows and he goes back to the grill again: Jab, jab straight left.

Look at ANY Pacquiao fight and you'll see its true. ANY Pacquiao fight. You're not going to change the core of a fighter.

New tricks don't translate into what a boxer can pull of when it counts.

Some people will just never understand that.

[tatangb45]

Absolutely. Shane threw less total punches against Manny, and he landed less. He threw more total punches against Floyd, and he landed more. The more you throw, the more you'll hit your target.

Now, answer this question; why was Shane less hesitant to throw more punches on Floyd than on Pac?

[tatangb45]

Well I have considered you're opinions and respectfully disagree, Woo.

I do see that Pacquiao has learned to throw different punches but how significant are the new punches that he's learned to throw? Are they winning him more fights against better competition?

You cannot honestly answer that question because Pacquiao has fought bigger names but not necessarily better competition at the point in which he inked his deal with his last 7 opponents.

You yourself are admitting that Pacquiao is the same fighter. If the adjustments or growth that you are citing were as significant as you suggest then there would be no reason for you to have admitted as much.

Like Iron Mike Tyson said "Everyone has a game plan until they get hit". I cited that quote to say that head movement and Pac's right hand are cute when he's the hunter, but once he gets hit he goes right back to the jab, jab, straight left hand. Manny hasn't made any real adjustments. Anyone can come out and show different things as long as no one puts the pressure to their asss.

But once he feels that fire on that asss, the true boxer shows and he goes back to the grill again: Jab, jab straight left.

Look at ANY Pacquiao fight and you'll see its true. ANY Pacquiao fight. You're not going to change the core of a fighter.

New tricks don't translate into what a boxer can pull of when it counts.

Some people will just never understand that.

Your post shows the total lack of objectivity or the absence of analytical capability.
Cotto and Margo were able to land big shots on Pac in the early rounds in those fights. What happened after that is the exact opposite of your assertions.

Go watch those fights again so that hopefully, you won't make the same asinine comments.

[Carpe Diem]

Now, answer this question; why was Shane less hesitant to throw more punches on Floyd than on Pac?

Because Manny's punches are more painfully effective than Floyd's punches.

[SincereDaGreat]

From the post i've read so far...I haven't seen any haters, just honest opinions and that's good...hopefully we can keep this thread serious!!

I agree with 99% of the first page comments...I can't say how much he's improved because he still hasn't fought a Boxer or Boxer/Puncher with a lot left in the tank since JMM.

Guys are ''BIG'' but don't really offer anything but size IMO!! It's a proven fact that 1 or 2lbs can make a very big difference for most fighters that have to cut a lot of weight...I feel thats why certain fighters were put at that disadvantage.

I do believe he has improved but mainly confidence. Until he fights a live "BIG'' opponent like Serg at 154, not a CW...or when we get the Floyd fight then I will clearly see what he's improved.

[RichCCFC]

[joelab75]

Pac improved a lot. no boxers would destroy and losing probably 2 rounds in his last 7 fights if the guy only had speed and power..Pac has better footwork, best powerful combination..you haters always talking about defense..the guy is the best offensive boxer in the world, why would he play defense? thats the way he fight? Pac destroy Floyd.