Comments Thread For: Weighing 168 - BoxingScene’s Pound for Pound Top Ten

[crold1]

Excluding Heavyweight makes this list completely invalid. Especially hw's that have moved up divisions (the definition of PFP).

The list sucks until that is rectified in my opinion.

I don't entirely exclude them. The best heavyweight is still the literal best in the world and P4P is one way to say fighter A would be the best IF he was a Heavy. If I saw a Heavyweight who I thought was genuinely one of the ten best fighters in the world, he'd be there. I've stated in the past as much. Tyson and Holyfield had the sort of speed and athleticism which any P4P guy would love. Ali would have been undeniable. I honestly believe if the Klits, with their skill sets and flaws, were in a class like Welter or Super Middle, they'd struggle to be more than fringe top ten guys.

Adamek and Haye might get some consideration and I've been thinking about them but, of the two, Adamek is the only one whose been in with a P4P level guy (Dawson).

He lost almost every second outside round eleven. Wasn't even close.

That he's moved up to lesser divisions and done well proves only what we knew at 175 (where he beat some decent but not special foes) he's very good but I'm not quite sure he's elite yet. Haye is on the verge but he needs the big Heavy win for me to reconsider.

[Tiozzo]

Cliff Rold's Knowledge > NSB

he makes mistakes like everybody else

I remember he ranked Evander Holyfield no. 6 (or 7) AT at HW AHEAD OF LENNOX LEWIS, the very same Holyfield who in his prime, struggled against a couple mediocre fighters, was beat twice by Bowe and once by Moorer, then went on to lose a lot of fights

I mean, Holy is great, but that rank was just wrongly picked

Cliff Rold does make mistakes, and this P4P top10 is full of em

[crold1]

Nothing wrong with 7.

Most of the fighters on the rings list shouldnt even be there.

Hopkins
Cab
JMM
Mosley

So Paul is really 4 spots higher....at 3.

Donaire is the worst based on where he is IMO.

[Tiozzo]

P4p rankings is always debateable and highly subjective. I feel there is some definete flaws with this piece. How can Paul Williams be rated as high as no. 3? He has one good win and that's Martinez and that was controversial at best. The win over Winky is way overrated as he was coming of a lenghty layoff and fighting at an advanced age.

Also Dawson is debateable.Wins over 40 year olds doesn't cut it me. His best win is Adamek and that is some time back.

To me personally I have an issue with Rold ranking Dirrell above Kessler in the p4p rankings. How can he be over Kessler? That's terrible rankings. Kessler has a long string of waaayyy better wins than Dirrell and he beat the man who beat Dirrell. Dirrell has only a single win over a world class guy and that's AA and the latters resumé at 168 is clearly below that of Froch.

You are ALWAYS trying to plug Kessler in your posts, no matter what the subject is.

You are hilarious. Period.

[jrosales13]

he makes mistakes like everybody else

I remember he ranked Evander Holyfield no. 6 (or 7) AT at HW AHEAD OF LENNOX LEWIS, the very same Holyfield who in his prime, struggled against a couple mediocre fighters, was beat twice by Bowe and once by Moorer, then went on to lose a lot of fights

I mean, Holy is great, but that rank was just wrongly picked

Cliff Rold does make mistakes, and this P4P top10 is full of em

First of all, all time I would rank Holy>Lewis just cuz of what Holy did in the CW division. All time at HW? Either one is OK they're very close... I don't see that as a mistake.

And, even though I just can't see P-Will being over Dawson. P4P is a mythical opinion based ranking. There is no right or wrong. There is no such thing as a mistake in a P4P list.

[crold1]

First of all, all time I would rank Holy>Lewis just cuz of what Holy did in the CW division. All time at HW? Either one is OK they're very close... I don't see that as a mistake.

And, even though I just can't see P-Will being over Dawson. P4P is a mythical opinion based ranking. There is no right or wrong. There is no such thing as a mistake in a P4P list.

I once briefly got high on Lorenzo Parra and had him at 2...that was probably over exuberant (though I wouldn't say mistake).

[jrosales13]

I once briefly got high on Lorenzo Parra and had him at 2...that was probably over exuberant (though I wouldn't say mistake).

#2 Cliff? WOW..................

I would say this, I might be in the minority. But, I thought he deserved FOTY award over Ricky Hatton in 2005.

But, I don't about ever being #2 P4P though Cliff .

But, I don't think there is a such thing as a mistake in a P4P list.

[Tiozzo]

First of all, all time I would rank Holy>Lewis just cuz of what Holy did in the CW division. All time at HW? Either one is OK they're very close... I don't see that as a mistake.

And, even though I just can't see P-Will being over Dawson. P4P is a mythical opinion based ranking. There is no right or wrong. There is no such thing as a mistake in a P4P list.

well... I believe there can be such a thing as a mistake in a P4P ranking despite the fact that it is highly subjective

it is highly subjective, BUT NOT TOTALLY SUBJECTIVE, cause you gotta have arguments to back a ranking up, and some propositions cannot be received

probably 99% of the people (everybody minus his haters) think Pacquiao is no. 1 or 2 P4P BASED ON HIS LATEST ACHIEVEMENTS, so there is a part of consensus ans objectivity to P4P rankins

saying, for example, that RJJ is P4P right now would be a mistake
saying Margarito is P4P would be a mistake
saying Paul Will who has had a couple of good wins a while back, but has been STRUGGLING against his latest competition is no. 3 is definitely a mistake, because there are many fighters more deserving of that high spot than Paul Will, that is based on recent achievements

[crold1]

#2 Cliff? WOW..................

I would say this, I might be in the minority. But, I thought he deserved FOTY award over Ricky Hatton in 2005.

But, I don't about ever being #2 P4P though Cliff .

But, I don't think there is a such thing as a mistake in a P4P list.

I loved the skill set, the road warrior approach...if he hadn't hurt his knee and blown up, who knows? He gave Cab a squab coming in cold at 22

[Tiozzo]

I don't entirely exclude them. The best heavyweight is still the literal best in the world and P4P is one way to say fighter A would be the best IF he was a Heavy. If I saw a Heavyweight who I thought was genuinely one of the ten best fighters in the world, he'd be there. I've stated in the past as much. Tyson and Holyfield had the sort of speed and athleticism which any P4P guy would love. Ali would have been undeniable. I honestly believe if the Klits, with their skill sets and flaws, were in a class like Welter or Super Middle, they'd struggle to be more than fringe top ten guys.

Adamek and Haye might get some consideration and I've been thinking about them but, of the two, Adamek is the only one whose been in with a P4P level guy (Dawson).

He lost almost every second outside round eleven. Wasn't even close.

That he's moved up to lesser divisions and done well proves only what we knew at 175 (where he beat some decent but not special foes) he's very good but I'm not quite sure he's elite yet. Haye is on the verge but he needs the big Heavy win for me to reconsider.

these are things I have said in the past, and got crucified for

watch out