Comments Thread For: Weighing 168 - BoxingScene’s Pound for Pound Top Ten

[ShoulderRoll]

The whole point of the update was why neither Ward or Bute has quite hit the top ten and why I think one of them will be positioned to bump in sooner than later. Ward has better foes lined up so his road is smoother. Race/ethnicity/culture is NOT a factor anymore now than it was when guys like Hatton, Tszyu, Calzaghe, Kessler (when he was undefeated) were on the list.

I hear you Cliff.

But Adamek is deserving I think, he won a light heavyweight title then a cruiserweight title and is now beating up heavyweights. That's pound for pound to me.

[crold1]

I hear you Cliff.

But Adamek is deserving I think, fought for the lightweight title then the cruiserweight title and is now beating up heavyweights. That's pound for pound to me.

I'm fine with that and I think he could be a real interesting fight for Vitali. However, the Light Heavy belt he fought for was whatever considering the top of class at the time and I think he needs a little more than a pretty good Cunningham and Bell, Briggs, and the horribly mediocre Arreola to overcome the almost non-competitive (minus a single big shot) showing against the only elite talent he's faced. he moved up to two lesser classes and has done well because he is world class and has balls. I think he makes better fights than most of the guys on the list without being a better fighter.

As said, this is just a list of ten. Boxing is far more than just ten guys.

[big_james10]

interesting.

Cliff is officially a *****.

True. Anyone who doesn't recognize that Manny Pacquaio is the P4P king, fighter of the decade, fighter of the century, the greatest fighter who ever lived and ever will live, soon to be the greatest congressman in the history of the Phillipines and the second come of Sugar Ray Robinson AND Jesus Christ, is definitely a *****.

[jrosales13]

Cliff one quick question....

If Chad beats Pascal comfortably and looks good doing it... Could he possibly move ahead of P-Will on your list?

[BattlingNelson]

I don't entirely exclude them. The best heavyweight is still the literal best in the world and P4P is one way to say fighter A would be the best IF he was a Heavy. If I saw a Heavyweight who I thought was genuinely one of the ten best fighters in the world, he'd be there. I've stated in the past as much. Tyson and Holyfield had the sort of speed and athleticism which any P4P guy would love. Ali would have been undeniable. I honestly believe if the Klits, with their skill sets and flaws, were in a class like Welter or Super Middle, they'd struggle to be more than fringe top ten guys.

Adamek and Haye might get some consideration and I've been thinking about them but, of the two, Adamek is the only one whose been in with a P4P level guy (Dawson).

He lost almost every second outside round eleven. Wasn't even close.

That he's moved up to lesser divisions and done well proves only what we knew at 175 (where he beat some decent but not special foes) he's very good but I'm not quite sure he's elite yet. Haye is on the verge but he needs the big Heavy win for me to reconsider.

I'm pretty sure that you've said before that you didn't rank HW's. Now that you say you do I must say that excluding Wlad is a terrible omission. That he's not even mentioned is appauling given the fact the amount of years he has dominated the division. His resumé ****s on Dawsons, Williams and others.

That's my opinion, and at the end of the day opinions is the name of the game when making a p4p list.

[BattlingNelson]

You are ALWAYS trying to plug Kessler in your posts, no matter what the subject is.

You are hilarious. Period.

You rarely adress the issues at hand. You rather go after the man.

Trademark of a ****poster.

[crold1]

I'm pretty sure that you've said before that you didn't rank HW's. Now that you say you do I must say that excluding Wlad is a terrible omission. That he's not even mentioned is appauling given the fact the amount of years he has dominated the division. His resumé ****s on Dawsons, Williams and others.

That's my opinion, and at the end of the day opinions is the name of the game when making a p4p list.

I've said in the past that if I saw an exceptional Heavy, I wouldn't ignore it but I mostly don't bother because I think the skills gap is that palpable. Haye and Adamek have had me rethinking (and reevaluating approach is always a must) being too stiff on the position because they are clearly excellent fighters who, and this means a ton, unlike most of the non-Klits, pay the price in the gym to be the best. They're not fat asses who show up with decent fundamentals and no fire or fire but no chance because they won't prepare to be the best. I give the Klits immense credit for being professional in an era short on the concept. I respect them...I just don't think they belong in THIS discussion right now. I understand those who do based purely on his current run and have no real beef with it.

For me, Wlad is good but his resume isn't as great as his numbers. In an era without three or four belts, most of the champs he's have beaten would NEVER have sniffed a "world title." He has yet to beat a fighter who would rate as a near prime top 50 Heavyweight and has bad losses, deep into his career and near his physical peak, to others who would also miss that cut. Part of that is opportunity...part is a failure to launch. He was moved SO SLOW while guys like Holy and Lewis were fading. He missed the chance to brush shoulders with those greats because, six or seven years in, his people were still wary of making the big push.

I disagree that his resume ****s on those fighters when factoring in quality wins against quality foes and I stand by the thinking that if "all were relatively the same size" Wlad wouldn't be in the race. Doesn't take away from how good a Heavyweight he is in his time, but I don't think he's better, in the ring, than anyone in the top ten here, the five who "could be here" or others not listed.

He's the literal best fighter in the world because the best Heavyweight still can beat more guys than anyone else. That's honor enough. He's the Heavyweight champ, still in my mind the greatest honor in sport.

[BattlingNelson]

I've said in the past that if I saw an exceptional Heavy, I wouldn't ignore it but I mostly don't bother because I think the skills gap is that palpable. Haye and Adamek have had me rethinking (and reevaluating approach is always a must) being too stiff on the position because they are clearly excellent fighters who, and this means a ton, unlike most of the non-Klits, pay the price in the gym to be the best. They're not fat asses who show up with decent fundamentals and no fire or fire but no chance because they won't prepare to be the best. I give the Klits immense credit for being professional in an era short on the concept. I respect them...I just don't think they belong in THIS discussion right now. I understand those who do based purely on his current run and have no real beef with it.

For me, Wlad is good but his resume isn't as great as his numbers. In an era without three or four belts, most of the champs he's have beaten would NEVER have sniffed a "world title." He has yet to beat a fighter who would rate as a near prime top 50 Heavyweight and has bad losses, deep into his career and near his physical peak, to others who would also miss that cut. Part of that is opportunity...part is a failure to launch. He was moved SO SLOW while guys like Holy and Lewis were fading. He missed the chance to brush shoulders with those greats because, six or seven years in, his people were still wary of making the big push.

I disagree that his resume ****s on those fighters when factoring in quality wins against quality foes and I stand by the thinking that if "all were relatively the same size" Wlad wouldn't be in the race. Doesn't take away from how good a Heavyweight he is in his time, but I don't think he's better, in the ring, than anyone in the top ten here, the five who "could be here" or others not listed.

He's the literal best fighter in the world because the best Heavyweight still can beat more guys than anyone else. That's honor enough. He's the Heavyweight champ, still in my mind the greatest honor in sport.

All is good Cliff and yeah one can always reevaluate the approach.

I disagree with your take on Wlad obviously. The opposition Wlad faces is perhaps as bad as the opposition faced by Holmes or Louis but Wlad doesn't just win. He wins in such a way that there's no room whatsoever for his opponents to claim any kind of controversy.

Also you mention that Haye and Adamek deserves consideration yet they are both lightyears behind Wlad (and Vitali). You mention that Adamek is the only one who has faced a p4p guy in Dawson, yet Dawson himself hasn't faced any p4p'ers. Only notable wins on his resumé is actually Adamek (drained) and a couple over over-the-hill 40 year olds.

[MARKBNLV]

did not see this until now,this list is not far off of mine.

[Guest]

All is good Cliff and yeah one can always reevaluate the approach.

I disagree with your take on Wlad obviously. The opposition Wlad faces is perhaps as bad as the opposition faced by Holmes or Louis but Wlad doesn't just win. He wins in such a way that there's no room whatsoever for his opponents to claim any kind of controversy.

Also you mention that Haye and Adamek deserves consideration yet they are both lightyears behind Wlad (and Vitali). You mention that Adamek is the only one who has faced a p4p guy in Dawson, yet Dawson himself hasn't faced any p4p'ers. Only notable wins on his resumé is actually Adamek (drained) and a couple over over-the-hill 40 year olds.

I agree with Bat here.

I mean how many championship fights in a row does Wlad have to win and by ko to get notice?

He's won a **** load and has only really ducked one guy in his whole career (Sanders rematch)

He can only beat who's out there for him, and he does while rarely losing rounds.