HOLYFIELD beats Usyk at Cruiser or HW.

[The Big Dunn]

Where is the lie? Marciano and Usyk were perfect. Fraudweather brags that being a coward is what made him rich in boxing.

This post. Most of the opinions you post about Floyd.

Floyd is perfect. Marciano is perfect. Usyk hasn’t retired like they have, So to call him perfect as if he has is a bit premature.

I don’t think Kayabel or Parker beat him so I assume he will also retire with a perfect record.

[MalevolentBite]

I'm a Usyk fan who is starting to reconsider

You can be fan. I like usyk too but he nevef faced an elite American heavyweight in their prime. Even the Klitschkos didn't. They came when America didn't produce any more elite Heavyweight champions and thats the truth. Our last prime elite heavyweight champion was rid**** bowe. After 1997 all ofthe big athletic American athletes went to the NFL and thats a fact.

[MalevolentBite]

It was just irony.

My picking of Usyk (after long and hard thinking) in their respective primes is based on Usyk's superior ring intelligence. He would never be dragged into a war by Evander. I believe he would outbox him, but it would not be an easy night for him. Not at all.

Fair statement.

[ONOFF]

You can be fan. I like usyk too but he nevef faced an elite American heavyweight in their prime. Even the Klitschkos didn't. They came when America didn't produce any more elite Heavyweight champions and thats the truth. Our last prime elite heavyweight champion was rid**** bowe. After 1997 all ofthe big athletic American athletes went to the NFL and thats a fact.

Correct! The NFL... the one major league that's culturally and structurally American-only. (no one else plays it). Kind of like the '80s and '90s, when Eastern Europeans were banned from participating in pro boxing, and Americans still called themselves "champions of the world."

The last refuge for American exceptionalism is the NFL — because nobody else cares about it apart from Americans themselves.

You had the same phenomenon in tennis. At one point, it was completely dominated by Americans (Sampras, Agassi, Courier, McEnroe, Connors, etc.). But once international competition caught up, it was over .... especially after the rise of Federer, Nadal, and Djokovic.

It's kind of embarrassing, really. During the 2024 Olympic basketball tournament, Jokic nearly led Serbia to an upset against a heavily favored and stacked American team — a roster featuring Curry, Booker, LeBron, Tatum, Davis, Durant, Edwards (to name a few). And yet, the U.S. only managed a narrow 95–91 win in a close semifinal.

Just imagine: Serbia’s population is approximately 6.6 million, while the United States has about 330 million people. Considering that massive difference, the Serbian basketball team coming so close to defeating the USA “Dream Team”... made up of some of the best NBA players — is statistically remarkable.

Serbia has roughly 1/50th the population of the U.S. Embarrassing. But hey, there’s always the NFL, right?

[IronDanHamza]

Dude you are the one who reference me giving James toney credit for looking good against holyfield. That was based on my on trend were we went back and forth.

https://www.boxingscene.com/forums/f...these-fighters

You were the one who brought that up and that was a debate about James toney vs canelo. Now you are trolling or a lair.

Its credit because its an official win on the books. However it has an asterisk because holyfield wasn't in his prime.

Isn't Barry Bonds the home run king ? Yes but since its an asterisk by his record Hank Aaron is the official legit king.

Its the same situation. Byrd gets credit but its not a legit measuring stick of holyfield skill set against southpaws. I Aint not contradicting nothing you just acting slow and its ok cuz I got time lol.

no dan's point doesn't stand because I already stated those loses has an asterisk because holyfield was not in his prime when he lost to Byrd.

Prime holyfield would had beaten Byrd. Just like a prime holyfield would had beaten Usyk. You guys are just prisoners of the moment. There's only one legit champion in Uysk era and it’s him everyone else ain't an all time great. None. But since boxing puts everyone in the hall of fame Tyson, AJ, Wilder will all go in and it will give uysk more credit in the long run.

Ok, so how do you not see that this directly contradicts your point in the other thread where you are attempting to give Toney credit for beating an older version of that Evander Holyfield?

And it’s not based on that thread, that thread happened months ago and I’d forgot it even existed.

It’s based on the Toney-Julian Jackson thread Are you slow or what? It’s on the FIRST PAGE of the history section. To which you attempt to give Toney credit for beating Holyfield.l and act like it’s something worth praising but then again directly contradict that in this thread by saying he was old when he fought Byrd.

[Bennyleonard99]

This post. Most of the opinions you post about Floyd.

Floyd is perfect. Marciano is perfect. Usyk hasn’t retired like they have, So to call him perfect as if he has is a bit premature.

I don’t think Kayabel or Parker beat him so I assume he will also retire with a perfect record.

Floyd was counterfeit perfect, he got a lot of help from the establishment, WBC, HBO, Showtime, Haymon, ducking, dodging, Vegas, illegal IVs, you name it. Too many ducks on his record, true greats don't duck anybody.

[The Big Dunn]

Floyd was counterfeit perfect, he got a lot of help from the establishment, WBC, HBO, Showtime, Haymon, ducking, dodging, Vegas, illegal IVs, you name it. Too many ducks on his record, true greats don't duck anybody.

You’re trying to hard to hide your real reason for trying to differentiate between perfect records.

SMDH!

[MalevolentBite]

Correct! The NFL... the one major league that's culturally and structurally American-only. (no one else plays it). Kind of like the '80s and '90s, when Eastern Europeans were banned from participating in pro boxing, and Americans still called themselves "champions of the world."

The last refuge for American exceptionalism is the NFL — because nobody else cares about it apart from Americans themselves.

You had the same phenomenon in tennis. At one point, it was completely dominated by Americans (Sampras, Agassi, Courier, McEnroe, Connors, etc.). But once international competition caught up, it was over .... especially after the rise of Federer, Nadal, and Djokovic.

It's kind of embarrassing, really. During the 2024 Olympic basketball tournament, Jokic nearly led Serbia to an upset against a heavily favored and stacked American team — a roster featuring Curry, Booker, LeBron, Tatum, Davis, Durant, Edwards (to name a few). And yet, the U.S. only managed a narrow 95–91 win in a close semifinal.

Just imagine: Serbia’s population is approximately 6.6 million, while the United States has about 330 million people. Considering that massive difference, the Serbian basketball team coming so close to defeating the USA “Dream Team”... made up of some of the best NBA players — is statistically remarkable.

Serbia has roughly 1/50th the population of the U.S. Embarrassing. But hey, there’s always the NFL, right?

To be objective NBA and FIBA have different rules. Its not really the same style of play since the rules and 3 point line is different. plus basketball is a team sport. These players are not practicing together year in and year out. Some of those European national teams never change between the FIBA tournaments. Most American playera dont care about international play so most players tend to rest during the off season and not get injuried.

As an American i can count on my hands how often I watched tennis. So culturally speaking it fell out of popularity sometime around right before my generation. Remember it takes one generation before to set the tone just like baseball now the best baseball players are international. Thw generation before me, black americans stopped playing baseball hence the change culturally from the negro leagues to baseball in the 70s and 80s to now.

I think culturally basketball will still be played here in America at a high level but Europeans have better fundentals i definitely agree. I noticed that in my generation.

It was a time Europeans were the best 3 point shooters now everyone in the NBA shoots 3s.

Lets not act like players that didnt make the cut in the nba dont dominate in europe like Shane Larkin. And let's not act like dominant Europeans that didn't do anything in the NBA like Vassilis Spanoulis.

As for boxing. I think we will never have another elite American heavyweight. Never. Culturally its not there anymore.

If you weigh over 180lbs and over 6ft. You going to the NBA or NFL. AJ and DD if born in America they would be linebackers or Defensive ends in the NFL.

Who are these great eastern European heavyweights that didn't get a fair chance at the heavyweight belt in the 80s/90s ?

[MalevolentBite]

Ok, so how do you not see that this directly contradicts your point in the other thread where you are attempting to give Toney credit for beating an older version of that Evander Holyfield?

And it’s not based on that thread, that thread happened months ago and I’d forgot it even existed.

It’s based on the Toney-Julian Jackson thread Are you slow or what? It’s on the FIRST PAGE of the history section. To which you attempt to give Toney credit for beating Holyfield.l and act like it’s something worth praising but then again directly contradict that in this thread by saying he was old when he fought Byrd.

You're trolling. I stated I gave him credit for the blowout he put on holyfield. I still do like i stated here but I am not saying James toney would had beaten holyfield if holyfield was in his PRIME.

I said this 4 times already. I give him credit for the fight that he won in Context! The context was James toney looked great against an old Holyfield and James toney went up to heavyweight which is credit but i am not holding that loss against Holyfields career because he was old and not in his prime.

I clearly stated this.

[IronDanHamza]

You're trolling. I stated I gave him credit for the blowout he put on holyfield. I still do like i stated here but I am not saying James toney would had beaten holyfield if holyfield was in his PRIME.

I said this 4 times already. I give him credit for the fight that he won in Context! The context was James toney looked great against an old Holyfield and James toney went up to heavyweight which is credit but i am not holding that loss against Holyfields career because he was old and not in his prime.

I clearly stated this.

I didn’t say you said he’d beat a prime Holyfield. Obviously he wouldn’t do that, any one with even a single brain cell knows that.

You LITERALLY responded to my point that he’s never dominated a top level fighter with the Holyfield fight what the fuck are you talking about?!?!?!!!!!!!!!! Go and read the thread back.

In that thread, the Julian Jackson one from the other day, (NOT the Canelo one from months ago), you praise Toney’s win over Holyfield as a dominant win over a top level fighter in response to my post and yet in this thread you DIRECTLY contradict that by refuting Dan_Cov’s point about southpaws by saying Holyfield was old vs Byrd when he was a year YOUNGER when he fought Byrd.

Why would you give Toney credit for his “blowout” win over Holyfield’s corpse but then downplay Byrd doing it by admitting he was old? When he was younger vs Byrd It makes NO sense.

It’s there in plain English mate. It is the literal epitome of a flip flopping contradiction. How you can’t see that is baffling.