HOLYFIELD beats Usyk at Cruiser or HW.

[Zelda]

It would be competitive, but Holyfield was no joke. Usyk hasn't faced the type of competition Holyfield faced at HW.

[PRINCEKOOL]

Haye’? That’s the best you could come up with to prove your point? The guy who pulled out of two scheduled fights against Fury back in 2013? The same guy who got knocked down several times by Bellew? (And even got dropped by Mormeck?)

He was all over the place against Wlad Klitschko (in a bad way), even admitted Wlad was better than him. Klitschko himself was pretty one-dimensional compared to Usyk’s approach to boxing. So ok...Prime Wlad had the size, the skill, the power, and arguably a better jab than Larry Holmes. But he was way too cautious. Almost never improvised on the fly...His whole game was about sticking to a strict plan, dominating with the jab, then timing the right hand.

You ever watch that dreadful fight he had against Povetkin? The one where he was excessively clinching and holding the entire time? (Come to think of it, that was also, originally, a part of Fury’s plan against Usyk. But that kind of stuff doesn’t work when your target is moving non-stop for 12 rounds.)


As for Bowe vs Holyfield... "Disappointed" is the first word that comes to mind. Exciting fights, but disappointed by Holyfield, of course, since he clearly had dreadful game plans against an overrated big man like Ridd@ck Bowe. (Let’s not forget, Bowe had terrible conditioning and struggled against Golota on two separate occasions. Andrew was undeniably winning on the scorecards in both of their fights before being disqualified. Golota himself had decent mobility and powerful punches but was nowhere near as mobile as a Tyson Fury, and was mediocre at best compared
to other big guys like Joshua, Lennox, Vitali and even Pulev etc.)

Jean Marc Mormeck is a all-time great cruiserweight fighter 'He is a better win, than any Cruiserweight win Oleksandr Uysk has achieved on his resume. Mormeck beat every single fighter for close to a decade, 10 years. The one loss which he did suffer to O'Neil Bell the IBF Champion. He immediately avenged that loss prior to fighting David Haye. Achieving the feat of beating Jean Marc Mormeck at the time which he did? Was a superior win to all of Oleksandr Uysk's best Cruiserweight victories'.

And once more? David Haye beat Jean Marc Mormeck via knockout inside 7 rounds away from home 'David Haye also blasted out Enzo Maccarinelli inside 2 rounds, to become the WBC, WBA, WBO, and Lineal Cruiserweight World Champion. David Haye beat all the premier Cruiserweight Champions of his era, in more conclusive and brutal fashion than Oleksandr Uysk, those are the objective facts of boxing history'.

The only fighter Oleksandr Usyk was able to stop at top level in the Cruiserweight Division 'Was a version of Tony Bellew completely dead at the weight'.

The point I am making is? Oleksandr Uysk as a fighter head to head 'Is not a formidable fighter. He has in my opinion benefited from the opportune time he entered the heavyweight divisions. By the time Uysk entered the heavyweight division. Tyson Fury, Anthony Joshua and Deontay Wilder in combination had already cleared out the entire divisions. And they were all arguable outside of their peaks, and definitively in the case of Joshua experiencing a very vulnerable time in his career'.

Fighters who have always historically been great match ups for any fighter in history 'Have all been Champions who were able to separate themselves from their nearest competition. Fighters such as Muhammad Ali, Mike Tyson, George Foreman are fighters who were able to achieve this feat'.

Oleksandr Uysk has not been that type of fighter 'And that is the truth. In all of his top level fights, against other elite level fighters he has just about edged those fights. Both of his fights vs Tyson Fury I & II and Anthony Joshua I & II were close and competitive fights'.

So theoretically? Oleksandr Uysk if he was matched vs any of the past great heavyweight Champions 'They are all at the very last going to be competitive fights. Because it has been no other way during Uysk's career as a Champion'.

Toney Bellew after fighting two fights vs David Haye I & II at Heavyweight 'Dropped back down into the Cruiserweight Division, and by his own admission was dead at the weight. Bellew as since admitted that in reality? He should have fought Oleksandr Usyk in the heavyweight division'.

Toney Bellew had completely no issue winning rounds vs Oleksandr Uysk 'Two of the judges had Bellew winning on the scorecards, and one judge had it as draw at the time of the stoppage'.

And as I have mentioned before? In 2020 Oleksandr Uysk fought a version of Derek Chisora miles outside of his peak 'Chisora pushed Uysk right to the line. Busted him up real good, and inflicted heavy damage upon Oleksandr Uysk'.

Note: In 2012 David Haye fought Derek Chisora at his absolute peak 'And knocked him out inside 5 rounds'. David Haye who I believe as a Cruiserweight fighter at his peak was a better, more brutal and dangerous fighter than Oleksandr Uysk. David Haye weighing in at 210 pounds vs Derek Chisora 247 pounds. Haye became the first fighter to meet force with force and cancel out Chisora's momentum, being the first fighter to not only deck but knock out Chisora at his near peak as a fighter. Derek Chisora after this fight, would not be decked or knocked out for another 7 years almost. Chisora fought 18 more times, before eventually being legitimately knocked out again by Dillian Whyte in their rematch'.

All of this information in this posts 'Is evidence, which very strongly suggests that Oleksandr Uysk head to head is not a formidable fighter'.

If Muhammad Ali, Lennox Lewis, Mike Tyson, Evander Holyfield, George Foreman, Larry Holmes, Wladimir Kiltschko, Rocky Marciano 'Where all competing at the same time as Oleksandr Uysk? I don't think their teams and families would be petrified for them to fight Uysk'.

I get it? Oleksandr Uysk is the man in the moment 'He is winning, and that is what I think people struggle to see past in the moment. Oleksandr Uysk beating Daniel Dubois I & II is not an all-time great win, it is a solid win and that is about it. But people in my opinion within the boxing community, are completely overrating the win in terms of historical significance'.

Its is nowhere near the level of Mike Tyson knocking out Michael Spinks in 91 seconds, or Muhammad Ali being the first and only fighter ever in the history if the sport to knock out George Foreman.

To conclude: If Oleksandr Uysk at his absolute peak was competing in the same era and conditions vs Lennox Lewis, Mike Tyson, Evander Holyfield, George Foreman, Larry Holmes, Wladimir Kiltschko, Rocky Marciano, Joe Louis or Jack Dempsey 'And many more of the past great heavyweight fighters. The high likely-hood is that all of those fights, are going to be like entering into Dante's Inferno, they all have a very strong chance of beating him in my opinion' etc.

[IceTrayDaGang]

i believe so too..

[Tronix]

It would be competitive, but Holyfield was no joke. Usyk hasn't faced the type of competition Holyfield faced at HW.

Usyk defeated all the top heavyweights from various promotions.

[ONOFF]

why didn't fury do it, easy- because fury is not holyfield, holyfield fought like a man possessed on his day, in your face eating, your shots, throwing combos and ripping to the body every minute of every round. lets not talk as if fury is this amazingly crafty fighter when in reality he is a bit stiff and can be ugly with his sloppiness. joshua is another bad example, he is a good fighter but isn't good at using his physical attributes, just like fury- both were afraid to pressure because of their damaged chin, holyfield had an iron chin.

You dismiss Joshua and Fury as ‘bad examples,’ but isn’t that just because they don’t support your conclusion?

Joshua has a higher KO ratio than Holyfield. Fury outweighed Usyk by 40 pounds. So what exactly would convince you? Or is this more about nostalgia than evidence?

If fights haven’t changed since the '90s.. (as you say), then doesn’t Usyk’s dominance across two divisions in this era make his accomplishments even harder to ignore?

I’m not saying you’re wrong. I’m questioning the consistency of the logic. It’s an interesting take, but isn’t it built on assuming Usyk would just stand still and let Holyfield rip to the body at will?

Holyfield had an iron chin? Fair...But he was dropped by John Ruiz and staggered by Bowe. Neither of them were KO machines.

And I assume Tyson will be used as proof..But that’s exactly the point. Holyfield didn’t take Tyson’s shots — he neutralized him. Tied him up. Frustrated him. Took away his rhythm. That wasn’t chin, that was IQ.

So if we’re playing the strategy card, why assume it only works one way?

Usyk's not just another technician...He’s an Olympic gold medalist, undisputed at cruiser, twice undisputed at heavyweight. The only man to do that in the four-belt era. He doesn’t just adjust, he dissects.

And if you’re thinking "Holyfield would just do the same"... Buster Douglas beat Tyson too...and we both know how that story ended. Styles make fights, not myths. If nothing’s changed since the '90s, how did Usyk conquer two divisions in this exact system?

[ONOFF]

fights haven't changed much since the 1990s other than the tech we use, rings sizes are the same, gloves are the same, biased referees are plentiful. I cant see usyk dissecting a holyfield because he would not allow him the space to do that.

If the fallback is politics or judges, odd choice, considering Usyk built his résumé on foreign soil. Breidis in Latvia. Gassiev in Russia. Bellew in the UK. Joshua in London and Saudi. Fury in Riyadh. No crowd. No judges. No flags. Just skill.

Meanwhile, Holyfield’s defining wins? Mostly at home, under U.S. promoters, in U.S. venues. That’s not a flaw — but if we’re questioning venue and perception, shouldn’t we question that too?

And as for Usyk’s opposition ..isn't that just the last available exit? What does the ‘ideal’ opponent look like, exactly? A 6’9” heavyweight with elite footwork like Fury has never existed. Dismissing him for being ‘awkward’ sounds a lot like moving the goalposts. Joshua? Olympic gold, unified champ, multiple top-tier wins. But he ‘doesn’t count’ now?

Ali was dropped by Cooper. Lennox by Rahman. Joshua by Ruiz. Holyfield by Ruiz. Bowe couldn't outscore Golota. That’s boxing. It’s not perfection, it’s solving problems.

Funny how every time Usyk solves a puzzle, the puzzle gets called “not that impressive.” Yet when Holyfield wins, the opponent’s legacy grows in hindsight.

Strange how that works.

[ThunderFists]

You dismiss Joshua and Fury as ‘bad examples,’ but isn’t that just because they don’t support your conclusion?

Joshua has a higher KO ratio than Holyfield. Fury outweighed Usyk by 40 pounds. So what exactly would convince you? Or is this more about nostalgia than evidence?

If fights haven’t changed since the '90s.. (as you say), then doesn’t Usyk’s dominance across two divisions in this era make his accomplishments even harder to ignore?

I’m not saying you’re wrong. I’m questioning the consistency of the logic. It’s an interesting take, but isn’t it built on assuming Usyk would just stand still and let Holyfield rip to the body at will?

Holyfield had an iron chin? Fair...But he was dropped by John Ruiz and staggered by Bowe. Neither of them were KO machines.

And I assume Tyson will be used as proof..But that’s exactly the point. Holyfield didn’t take Tyson’s shots — he neutralized him. Tied him up. Frustrated him. Took away his rhythm. That wasn’t chin, that was IQ.

So if we’re playing the strategy card, why assume it only works one way?

Usyk's not just another technician...He’s an Olympic gold medalist, undisputed at cruiser, twice undisputed at heavyweight. The only man to do that in the four-belt era. He doesn’t just adjust, he dissects.

And if you’re thinking "Holyfield would just do the same"... Buster Douglas beat Tyson too...and we both know how that story ended. Styles make fights, not myths. If nothing’s changed since the '90s, how did Usyk conquer two divisions in this exact system?

Joshua has a higher KO ratio than holyfield- holyfield has had 57 fights and 29 kos, holyfield has more kos than joshua has fights

fury is 40lbs heavier but it made no difference if you don't know how to use your weight and arwe sloppy, fury got a reputation of using his weight because most of the people he did that to were not crafty or high level fighters, wilder, whyte...john mcdermott?- the most craftiest fighter fury fought were he used his weight effectively was against cunningham and he got dropped for that.

usyk is a legend no doubt, but i cant compare the likes of aj chisora and fury to guys like tyson, bowe and lewis i think even old george foreman could get rid of of aj chisora and potentialy fury if he doesnt get on his bike the whole fight.

Holyfield had an iron chin? Fair...But he was dropped by John Ruiz and staggered by Bowe- doesn't really have a bearing on his chin tbh, marquez was known to get dropped many times but his chin was solid, same with inoue, who ate clean shots from donaire but got dropped by nery and cardenas unlike aj who gets tapped on the chin and his legs get lost beneath him.

[ONOFF]

Joshua has a higher KO ratio than holyfield- holyfield has had 57 fights and 29 kos, holyfield has more kos than joshua has fights

fury is 40lbs heavier but it made no difference if you don't know how to use your weight and arwe sloppy, fury got a reputation of using his weight because most of the people he did that to were not crafty or high level fighters, wilder, whyte...john mcdermott?- the most craftiest fighter fury fought were he used his weight effectively was against cunningham and he got dropped for that.

usyk is a legend no doubt, but i cant compare the likes of aj chisora and fury to guys like tyson, bowe and lewis i think even old george foreman could get rid of of aj chisora and potentialy fury if he doesnt get on his bike the whole fight.

Holyfield had an iron chin? Fair...But he was dropped by John Ruiz and staggered by Bowe- doesn't really have a bearing on his chin tbh, marquez was known to get dropped many times but his chin was solid, same with inoue, who ate clean shots from donaire but got dropped by nery and cardenas unlike aj who gets tapped on the chin and his legs get lost beneath him.

Ok, so you're saying that because Holyfield has more total KOs (29 in 57 fights) than Joshua has total fights, that somehow makes him the bigger puncher ? Even though Joshua stops a much higher percentage of his opponents? Isn’t that like saying someone who shoots 100 times and scores 30 goals is better than someone who scores 28 goals in just 32 shots? Isn’t the ratio the actual measure of efficiency?

Also, If Fury’s weight and physicality “made no difference,” why were fighters consistently smothered and leaned on until they faded? Was Usyk’s ability to neutralize that not the very thing that should earn him credit? (Fury actually used this tactic at some point vs Wilder to sap his energy..Forced Wilder to carry Fury’s weight between exchanges, it was part of Fury's trainer's strategy).

And then you simply say that you can't "compare AJ, Chisora, and Fury to Tyson, Bowe, Lewis…" If we can’t compare AJ, Fury, and Chisora to Tyson, Bowe, and Lewis ... isn’t that just another way of saying the outcome’s already decided in your mind, regardless of the facts? Might as well just admit that anything you'll say will be emotionally-driven, hypothetical & detached from reality.

You also say: "even old george foreman could get rid of of aj chisora and potentialy fury "

Isn't that fan fiction though ? I mean, again, where's the evidence ? Especially when “old George” went life and death with guys like Alex Stewart and lost to Tommy Morrison. (He basically won by a controversial majority decision after 10 rounds vs Stewart even though his face was badly swollen), prime Foreman also lost to Jimmy Young. In fact, he was so physically and mentally spent after that fight he claimed to have a religious vision in the dressing room and literally walked away from boxing to become a preacher. here's the link. https://www.boxing247.com/boxing-new.../215449

[ThunderFists]

Ok, so you're saying that because Holyfield has more total KOs (29 in 57 fights) than Joshua has total fights, that somehow makes him the bigger puncher ? Even though Joshua stops a much higher percentage of his opponents? Isn’t that like saying someone who shoots 100 times and scores 30 goals is better than someone who scores 28 goals in just 32 shots? Isn’t the ratio the actual measure of efficiency?

Also, If Fury’s weight and physicality “made no difference,” why were fighters consistently smothered and leaned on until they faded? Was Usyk’s ability to neutralize that not the very thing that should earn him credit? (Fury actually used this tactic at some point vs Wilder to sap his energy..Forced Wilder to carry Fury’s weight between exchanges, it was part of Fury's trainer's strategy).

And then you simply say that you can't "compare AJ, Chisora, and Fury to Tyson, Bowe, Lewis…" If we can’t compare AJ, Fury, and Chisora to Tyson, Bowe, and Lewis ... isn’t that just another way of saying the outcome’s already decided in your mind, regardless of the facts? Might as well just admit that anything you'll say will be emotionally-driven, hypothetical & detached from reality.

You also say: "even old george foreman could get rid of of aj chisora and potentialy fury "

Isn't that fan fiction though ? I mean, again, where's the evidence ? Especially when “old George” went life and death with guys like Alex Stewart and lost to Tommy Morrison. (He basically won by a controversial majority decision after 10 rounds vs Stewart even though his face was badly swollen), prime Foreman also lost to Jimmy Young. In fact, he was so physically and mentally spent after that fight he claimed to have a religious vision in the dressing room and literally walked away from boxing to become a preacher. here's the link. https://www.boxing247.com/boxing-new.../215449

holyfield koed guys like tyson, qawi, de leon, ajs best kos...hmm... 41 year old klistchko who had been inactive for 2 years, whyte .40 year old povetkin? charles martin?- infact i will concede that joshua is more efficient in koing no hopers but the reality is joshua would be a fringe level contender in the 90s era despite all this modern advancement and semantics you want to put on it.

And then you simply say that you can't "compare AJ, Chisora, and Fury to Tyson, Bowe, Lewis…" If we can’t compare AJ, Fury, and Chisora to Tyson, Bowe, and Lewis ... isn’t that just another way of saying the outcome’s already decided in your mind, regardless of the facts?Might as well just admit that anything you'll say will be emotionally-driven, hypothetical & detached from reality. - i think YOU must be emotionally driven and in la la land if you think those guys are even close to their caliber, their names, resume and legacy will be discussed 100- 200 years now in boxing. no one will talk about aj or chisora in a few years, people might go on youtube to watch his trash talk and be entertained but noone is googling "fury ko highlights" in a decade from now lol or is that another unrealistic hypothetical.

lastly foreman was in his prime 4 years after his loss to ali? im pretty sure the 37 people who include joe frazier and norton, koing guys like wepner at only 20 years old in his 3 ord 4th fight as part of his 40 fight winning streak before the loss to ali was when he was in his prime. mate.

[Da Pimper]

Holyfield would lose to Usyk. But Evan Fields with his big bald metal head would have a good chance.