HOLYFIELD beats Usyk at Cruiser or HW.

[IronDanHamza]

Once again. I am putting it in perspective. They both got paid and agreed to fight. At that point you have to give the winner credit regardless but we have to be objective and put an asterisk by those wins. Tyson- Spinks, Ali - Holmes, and so on.

Yes Byrd and James toney looked good against an old Holyfield. That was their job to do so and Holyfield took the fight when he knew he was washed up but hey its on the books and for Byrd thats probably his 3rd best win after Tua and Klitschko. James toney was already an hall of famer before that win but Holyfield was still a marketable win. Its objective perspective.

You did this same bs on the forum. You dont want to stay on topic. I said a prime James toney beats Canelo. Point blank. Here another guy tried to downplay Holyfield record and up lift usyk record.

So stay on topic. Do you think uysk would beat him or not ? Lol.

You’ve lost me now. Where was there a Toney-Canelo discussion?

And I’ve already given my opinion on a potential Holyfield-Usyk match in this thread, if you actually read it.

I’m more interested in the fact why you’re overtly flip flopping. Dan_cov made the point that Holyfield lost to southpaws and listed Byrd as an example to which you refuted that claim by saying Holyfield was old when he fought Byrd therefore meaning that dan_cov’s point doesn’t stand due to that. Right?

You’re now here saying seemingly the exact opposite to what you originally refuted in this thread about you have to give Byrd credit for beating Holyfield, likely because it directly contradicts your stance in the other thread where you gave Toney credit for a win over an older version of the same Holyfield.

So which one is it? Does Dan_Cov’s point about Southpaws stand, or not?

[TheProudLunatic]

Can you prove McCall Rahman Grant Botha Holyfield all would have beaten Fury AJ Dubois Chisora? Can you prove to me Lennox would have beaten Fury at his best? No you can't. All eras are tough with unique extraordinary talents.

I think Chisora and Dubois would beat Rahman and McCall.

Can you prove they can't ?!?!?

[Dr Z]

MalevolentBite

Moorer is in the hall of fame. He aint no bum. Are we really considering 38 year old Holyfield that had wars prime when he faced Ruiz really ? Uysk never even faced anybody on Bowes level in his career at heavyweight. Come on now fam

.

Holy is 1-4 in non BS score cards vs Lewis and Bowe and the 1 win came via a narrow margin! The fan man came, forcing a 17 minute break allowing and often gassed Holyfield time to compete to refuel.

He is 1-1 vs Moorer and 1-1-1- vs Ruiz for a combined 2-6-1 vs these guys.

That is who he is. Oh and he used ROIDS and fought dirty sometimes..

FACTS.

[TheProudLunatic]

Usyk loses to Bowe, Lewis. No rematch necessary
Vs Moorer, Ruiz is a toss-up
Ruiz > Dubois, Chisora
Moorer > Dubois, Chisora, AJ, Fury

Love to see how history looks on Usyk's resume.
1, maybe 2 HOFers on it.
That 1 HOFer, Fury, is by default.

[MalevolentBite]

You’ve lost me now. Where was there a Toney-Canelo discussion?

And I’ve already given my opinion on a potential Holyfield-Usyk match in this thread, if you actually read it.

I’m more interested in the fact why you’re overtly flip flopping. Dan_cov made the point that Holyfield lost to southpaws and listed Byrd as an example to which you refuted that claim by saying Holyfield was old when he fought Byrd therefore meaning that dan_cov’s point doesn’t stand due to that. Right?

You’re now here saying seemingly the exact opposite to what you originally refuted in this thread about you have to give Byrd credit for beating Holyfield, likely because it directly contradicts your stance in the other thread where you gave Toney credit for a win over an older version of the same Holyfield.

So which one is it? Does Dan_Cov’s point about Southpaws stand, or not?

Dude you are the one who reference me giving James toney credit for looking good against holyfield. That was based on my on trend were we went back and forth.

https://www.boxingscene.com/forums/f...these-fighters

You were the one who brought that up and that was a debate about James toney vs canelo. Now you are trolling or a lair.

Its credit because its an official win on the books. However it has an asterisk because holyfield wasn't in his prime.

Isn't Barry Bonds the home run king ? Yes but since its an asterisk by his record Hank Aaron is the official legit king.

Its the same situation. Byrd gets credit but its not a legit measuring stick of holyfield skill set against southpaws. I Aint not contradicting nothing you just acting slow and its ok cuz I got time lol.

no dan's point doesn't stand because I already stated those loses has an asterisk because holyfield was not in his prime when he lost to Byrd.

Prime holyfield would had beaten Byrd. Just like a prime holyfield would had beaten Usyk. You guys are just prisoners of the moment. There's only one legit champion in Uysk era and its him everyone else ain't an all time great. None. But since boxing puts everyone in the hall of fame Tyson, AJ, Wilder will all go in and it will give uysk more credit in the long run.

[Tatabanya]

As much as I admire Evander, I doubt that Usyk would ever lose to John Ruiz.

[MalevolentBite]

.

Holy is 1-4 in non BS score cards vs Lewis and Bowe and the 1 win came via a narrow margin! The fan man came, forcing a 17 minute break allowing and often gassed Holyfield time to compete to refuel.

He is 1-1 vs Moorer and 1-1-1- vs Ruiz for a combined 2-6-1 vs these guys.

That is who he is. Oh and he used ROIDS and fought dirty sometimes..

FACTS.

Lennox is probably top 4 greatest heavyweight ever. Thats not a dig against holyfield. Bowe ruled the 90s heavyweight era. Tyson didn't want to fight him the only dig you can say is he ducked lennox. Either way bowe is up there for heavyweights better than anything Usyk faced. Holyfield was 38 years old and owed child support when he fought Ruiz and he lost his house he was broke and needed money. Put it in context. That wasn't a prime holyfield.

You really didnt prove any point in this besides using holyfield record post 37 years ago and that is disingenuous honestly.


I agree with him using his head and roids but canelo , roy jones , Shane mosley , James toney all got postive test so this statement has nothing to do with a prime holyfield vs prime usyk

Unless you are saying he was on roids his whole career and he shouldn't get any credit for his career ? Thats wild.

I always gotta be the objective one on this site.

[cace]

Holyfield faced better competition at every level.

i agree

[MalevolentBite]

As much as I admire Evander, I doubt that Usyk would ever lose to John Ruiz.

So a 38 year old holyfield who had wars prior was in his prime when he lost to Ruiz?

Ok. Its officially lets discredit Roy Jones and Mike tyson and the rest of the past greats who faught pass their prime and judge them base on their loses. I am cool with that if that if we are using that same measuring stick for everyone.

I dont think Usyk at any point would lost to Leon Spinks so now we are going to discredit Ali?

[The Big Dunn]

Would be a great fight. IMO definitely going the distance.

I’m leaning toward Usyk by UD if it’s a 12 round fight, Holyfield by UD if it’s 15 rounds.

Usyk imo is slightly higher on the ATG list.