HOLYFIELD beats Usyk at Cruiser or HW.

[just the facts]

Tough call. Gut feeling is Holyfield but it’s getting harder and harder to say that.

[joseph5620]

"Not credible," yet you're seething. You ‘stopped reading,’ but somehow still replied...remarkable multitasking for someone allegedly above it all. You dodged every point, yet claim victory like a fighter who refused to show up, then bragged about winning by walkover. That’s not debating, that’s coping. Kind of like how Soviet boxers were banned from going pro—robbed of the fight, then dismissed by people who never saw them compete. Irony’s funny like that.

Stopped reading after the bolded comparison. I thought that was clear. But apparently you lack reading comprehension as well.

[Gary Coleman]

Tua had an irrelevant amateur career and stood only 178 cm tall. He was one of Lewis’s easiest opponents..Lennox simply kept him at bay with his jab (much like he did against Tyson). Throughout his career, Tua struggled against the few noteworthy opponents he faced, such as Chris Byrd, Rahman, and Ibeabuchi...with the exception of Moorer and Ruiz, though it's worth noting that both were somewhat overrated as well.

Golota wasn’t even a prototype of the Euro boxers we see today...Just another overrated, one-dimensional mental midget who’d be completely nonexistent in today’s “sh@t” era. Clumsy and stiff (and yet somehow a terrible matchup for Bowe), he highlights just how overrated the '90s really were. An era where a 45+ year-old, slow-as-hell Foreman managed to become champion. The tapes don’t lie—most of these guys were overrated gatekeepers. Moorer is a prime example of this.

And AJ nor Dubois would beat either.

[MalevolentBite]

I mean we may aswell throw Larry Donald in there aswel then in that case. How many fighters need to beat that version of Holyfield until the “props” stop?

Larry Donald looked fantastic against Holyfield too. Again, you’d hope he would. Hector Camacho looked incredible against Ray Leonard. It’s normal for fighters to look good against the corpse of a great fighter.

It’s absurd. You started this conversation downplaying Byrd’s win due to him being “old” (and rightfully so) and end it by saying it’s better than any American HW win in 25 years So why are you downplaying it then?! Doesn’t that mean Dan_Cov’s point stands about Holyfield vs Southpaws? The same point you’re disputing? Makes zero sense.

Nobody deserves credit for beating a 2003 version of Holyfield. It’s baffling that you’re handing out “props” to those that did (kind of).

Once again. I am putting it in perspective. They both got paid and agreed to fight. At that point you have to give the winner credit regardless but we have to be objective and put an asterisk by those wins. Tyson- Spinks, Ali - Holmes, and so on.

Yes Byrd and James toney looked good against an old Holyfield. That was their job to do so and Holyfield took the fight when he knew he was washed up but hey its on the books and for Byrd thats probably his 3rd best win after Tua and Klitschko. James toney was already an hall of famer before that win but Holyfield was still a marketable win. Its objective perspective.

You did this same bs on the forum. You dont want to stay on topic. I said a prime James toney beats Canelo. Point blank. Here another guy tried to downplay Holyfield record and up lift usyk record.

So stay on topic. Do you think uysk would beat him or not ? Lol.

[MalevolentBite]

When it comes to pro boxing, “better” competition has always meant matches being skewed, rigged, or outright “Americanized”—especially back when fighters from the former Soviet bloc weren’t even allowed to participate. This has been the trend across all weight classes, but it’s the heavyweight division where it’s most obvious and impactful. We’re supposed to believe that overrated guys like Rid**** Bowe, Tommy Morrison, Michael Moorer, and John Ruiz would dominate in today's so-called “pathetic” era, but honestly, boxing fans have been fed a lie for decades, with American fighters constantly getting hyped up way beyond their actual talent.

A ton of these old-school “legends”, supposed boxing demi-gods, are insanely overrated, it’s unreal.

Take Larry Holmes, for example. He never gave Tim Witherspoon a rematch after their razor-thin fight (straight up a robbery, if you ask me). Holmes’ best wins? Beating Earnie Shavers, an aged Ali, and Gerry “The Great White Hope” Cooney..plus Ken Norton, of course.

Speaking of Ken Norton, let's not forget he won a split decision robbery against Jimmy Young, the same Young who beat Foreman. (Even Norton looked shocked he got the W.) It was just Americans fighting each other, hyping themselves up, and selling a massive lie to the rest of the world. Now you’ve got nostalgic, brainwashed fans whining that all their best athletes went to play other sports, like that explains why they’re not running the show anymore ...Meanwhile, all the recent NBA MVPs have been non-Americans for, what, the last five or six years? Guess the only place they’re still thriving is in the NFL, the one league where Americans can play each other without the rest of the world joining in.

It swings both ways. Ken Norton really beat Ali twice. He was robbed in that third fight. 2 wins over Ali changes Norton's legacy dramatically. Styles make fights.

[MalevolentBite]

And AJ nor Dubois would beat either.

I agree. These current batch of heavyweights are trash.

[MalevolentBite]

AJ and Dubois are undisputed in the 90s

You are either young, American hater or an prisoner of the moment.

You smell like a frank Bruno European

[MalevolentBite]

Holyfield?

The same guy who is 1-1 vs Moorer , 1-1-1 vs Ruiz, got a home town ref bougus action when he was knocked down by Bert Cooper. Holy was roided to the gills.

A golden goose who fouled his opponents and had the establishment of power brokers looking out for him as he got several people paid.

Moorer is in the hall of fame. He aint no bum. Are we really considering 38 year old Holyfield that had wars prime when he faced Ruiz really ? Uysk never even faced anybody on Bowes level in his career at heavyweight. Come on now fam.

[Bennyleonard99]

I would say that you are highly uninformed and misinformed with that statement

Usyk never faced a heavyweight better than Lennox Lewis, Bowe, or Tyson. His cruiserweigt competition was not better either. That leaves your statement with no credibility.

Can you prove McCall Rahman Grant Botha Holyfield all would have beaten Fury AJ Dubois Chisora? Can you prove to me Lennox would have beaten Fury at his best? No you can't. All eras are tough with unique extraordinary talents.

I think Chisora and Dubois would beat Rahman and McCall.

[ONOFF]

And AJ nor Dubois would beat either.

The U.S. is no longer the default capital of sports excellence, the world got better, while America stayed insular. Whether it’s boxing, tennis, MMA or basketball, success now goes to countries with better development systems, and deeper hunger. Again, The NFL is the one major league that's culturally, commercially, and structurally American-only. Americans dominate it because… no one else plays it. There’s no meaningful international talent pool in American football. Unlike basketball, tennis, soccer, MMA or boxing, there is no foreign league with comparable depth or training pipelines. The U.S. is playing itself and calling it a "world championship".


We saw similar scenarios back in the 70's, 80's, 90's... Labeling themselves "world champions" in an era where Soviet bloc countries were effectively banned from professional boxing. You guys ate it all up, believed in your own lies. But everyone can see today how the wheel has turned. There's no rational arguments whatsoever, just seething and baseless fantasies, one guy says: "American hater", "prisoner of the moment"....Right, but at some point, refusing to acknowledge what’s happening right in front of you makes you a prisoner of the past. Sometimes the moment is the message.

Bowe was overrated! couldn't get rid of that mediocre mentally weak , gatekeeper Andrew Golota (who was just as mentally weak as Oliver McCall but still winning on scorecards before each disqualification).

Moorer was a terrible champion, another glorified, american champion with a weak chin, zero ring IQ, ( lost to an aging Foreman who moved like a zombie), lacked defensive skills, koed out cold by Tua and the very same people who sh@t all over today's brits or eastern euros are the same who are stuck in an imaginary past of "vastly superior and skilled" boxers but we're in 2025, everything is easily accessible online, and we can all see how so many fans embellish the past, It's revisionist nostalgia, a desperate clinging to a myth of dominance that no longer reflects reality.

The old narratives don’t hold up anymore because we have the footage, the data. Everyone can now watch full fight archives, analysis from all over the world. There's no mystery anymore... just evidence. And that evidence shows the sport has evolved far beyond the U.S. borders.