HOLYFIELD beats Usyk at Cruiser or HW.

[joseph5620]

Usyk and Marciano are the only two heavyweight champions to achieve perfect careers. Both are amazing athletes and above and beyond the rest. Perfection in boxing is impossible unless it's rigged like Floyd and Haymon did it.

Another racist boxing fan. Surprise, Surprise

[Bennyleonard99]

Another racist boxing fan. Surprise, Surprise

Where is the lie? Marciano and Usyk were perfect. Fraudweather brags that being a coward is what made him rich in boxing.

[ONOFF]

What is the best version of Oleksandr Uysk? The version that fought Anthony Joshua, Tyson Fury or Daniel Dubois. I personally think it was the version that fought Joshua I & II. During those fights, Usyk's work rate was higher than all of his other heavyweight fights, and skill for skill he was competing against a solid version of Anthony Joshua'.

Now, similarly? What is the best version Evander Holyfield? The versions of Holyfield who fought Rid**** Bowe I & II, Mike Tyson I & II, Buster Douglas, George Foreman, or Lennox Lewis I & II? I would rate the best version of Evander Holyfield to be in his second fight vs Rid**** Bowe II'.

People must now go away and watched Oleksandr Uysk vs Anthony Joshua I & II, and then Evander Holyfield vs Rid**** Bowe I & II 'And be honest, which fighter do you think looks more impressive and was tested more during their battles'.

Note: Oleksandr Uysk has never been involved in a high level fight 'anywhere near the standard of Evander Holyfield vs Rid**** Bowe I, II and even III. Because modern day super heavyweight fighters struggle to fight on the inside, most of them have zero inside game'.

Rid**** Bowe threw over 700 + punches in his first fight vs Evander Holyfield 'With Holyfield throwing 500 + punches. And during the second fight, Rid**** Bowe again threw over 700+ punches, with Evander Holyfield too throwing over 500 + punches'.

A big strength and advantage which Oleksandr Uysk has used vs modern day Super heavyweight fighters is his work rate and endurance 'One of the major reasons why Oleksandr Uysk beat Tyson Fury, Anthony Joshua and Daniel Dubois. Was because they could not compete with his endurance levels, especially Daniel Dubois'.

In recent years the highest work rate Oleksandr Uysk has produced during a top level fight 'Was during his rematch vs Anthony Joshua II. Oleksandr Uysk threw over 700 + punches. In all of his other fights vs Tyson Fury I & II? Uysk was producing a similar work rate to Evander Holyfield at his peak'.

Oleksandr Uysk skill for skill was not on another level to ether Tyson Fury or Anthony Joshua 'They could both land punches, and win rounds vs Uysk. But over the entire duration of a distance fights, their ability to maintain that level of performance decreased more compared to Oleksandr Uysk'.

First and foremost 'That situation does not happen vs a peak version of Evander Holyfield. The statistics of his greatest fights show this very clearly? That he has a tremendous level of endurance'.

So if Oleksandr Uysk does not have that attribute over his competitors 'Where is he actually superior to Evander Holyfield? Does Uysk have a better inside game? No. Does hit with more power? No. Does Uysk have more proven and better durability at heavyweight? No. Is Oleksandr Uysk skill for skill a better boxer? It is close, I don't think it is very clear'.

Evander Holyfield at his absolute peak as a Heavyweight fighter 'Beats down Oleksandr Uysk over the distance in my opinion. I don't think Uysk has the single punch power to stop Holyfield in his tracks, and skill for skill? Oleksandr Uysk has never been miles better than his nearest competitors. Every single fighter at top level he has fought, wins rounds against him. Tyson Fury, Anthony Joshua, Derek Chisora and even Daniel Dubois were all able to win rounds vs Oleksandr Uysk'.

So whoever people want to match vs Oleksandr Uysk head to head 'Whether that is Muhammad Ali, Lennox Lewis, Evander Holyfield, Mike Tyson, George Foreman, Wladimir Kiltschko or Larry Holmes'.

Those great past fighters are most likely all landing punches against him, and they will all have the ability to win rounds 'So where actually is Oleksandr Uysk going to out compete those fighters? What is the big attribute which enables him to blow those other past great heavyweights out of the water?'.

To conclude: Seriously people need to calm down 'If Tyson Fury, Anthony Joshua and Derek Chisora fighters all outside of their peak when they fought Uysk. They were all able to win rounds, and even bust Uysk up real good. Go and look at the pictures of Oleksandr Uysk after he fought both Joshua and Chisora. Oleksandr Uysk was battered and sustained heavy structural damage'.

Derek Chisora was already miles outside of his peak when he fought Oleksandr Uysk 'And he pushed Uysk right to the line in that fight. Again? If people want match Uysk head to head with all of the other past great heavyweight fighters, this is the evidence which people use to compare fighters'.

David Haye who I believe as a Cruiserweight fighter at his peak was a better, more brutal and dangerous fighter than Oleksandr Uysk 'In 2012 David Haye fought Derek Chisora at his absolute peak. David Haye weighing in at 210 pounds vs Derek Chisora 247 pounds. Haye became the first fighter to meet force with force and cancel out Chisora's momentum, being the first fighter to not only deck but knock out Chisora at his near peak as a fighter. Derek Chisora after this fight, would not be decked or knocked out for another 7 years almost. Chisora fought 18 more times, before eventually being legitimately knocked out again by Dillian Whyte in their rematch'.

I get it? Oleksandr Uysk is the man in the moment right now 'He is the most accomplished boxer currently in the entire sport. And I do personally rate him as pound for pound best fighter in the world'.

But head to head, the reality is? Oleksandr Uysk is not a terrifying or a formidable fighter 'He has benefited from the opportune time he entered into the heavyweight Division. But still what he has achieved was monumental'.

I honestly believe that at their peak both David Haye and Evander Holyfield would beat Oleksandr Uysk 'Haye would beat Uysk both at Cruiserweight and Heavyweight. The weight limit for the Cruiserweight Division during Evander Holyfield's era was 190 pounds so? Really making that comparison is not that relevant. But for sure as Heavyweight fighter Evander Holyfield skill for skill competed during a more brutal and superior boxing era' etc.

Haye’? That’s the best you could come up with to prove your point? The guy who pulled out of two scheduled fights against Fury back in 2013? The same guy who got knocked down several times by Bellew? (And even got dropped by Mormeck?)

He was all over the place against Wlad Klitschko (in a bad way), even admitted Wlad was better than him. Klitschko himself was pretty one-dimensional compared to Usyk’s approach to boxing. So ok...Prime Wlad had the size, the skill, the power, and arguably a better jab than Larry Holmes. But he was way too cautious. Almost never improvised on the fly...His whole game was about sticking to a strict plan, dominating with the jab, then timing the right hand.

You ever watch that dreadful fight he had against Povetkin? The one where he was excessively clinching and holding the entire time? (Come to think of it, that was also, originally, a part of Fury’s plan against Usyk. But that kind of stuff doesn’t work when your target is moving non-stop for 12 rounds.)


As for Bowe vs Holyfield... "Disappointed" is the first word that comes to mind. Exciting fights, but disappointed by Holyfield, of course, since he clearly had dreadful game plans against an overrated big man like Ridd@ck Bowe. (Let’s not forget, Bowe had terrible conditioning and struggled against Golota on two separate occasions. Andrew was undeniably winning on the scorecards in both of their fights before being disqualified. Golota himself had decent mobility and powerful punches but was nowhere near as mobile as a Tyson Fury, and was mediocre at best compared to other big guys like Joshua, Lennox, Vitali and even Pulev etc.)

[The Big Dunn]

Where is the lie? Marciano and Usyk were perfect. Fraudweather brags that being a coward is what made him rich in boxing.

This post. Most of the opinions you post about Floyd.

Floyd is perfect. Marciano is perfect. Usyk hasn’t retired like they have, So to call him perfect as if he has is a bit premature.

I don’t think Kayabel or Parker beat him so I assume he will also retire with a perfect record.

[MalevolentBite]

I'm a Usyk fan who is starting to reconsider

You can be fan. I like usyk too but he nevef faced an elite American heavyweight in their prime. Even the Klitschkos didn't. They came when America didn't produce any more elite Heavyweight champions and thats the truth. Our last prime elite heavyweight champion was rid**** bowe. After 1997 all ofthe big athletic American athletes went to the NFL and thats a fact.

[MalevolentBite]

It was just irony.

My picking of Usyk (after long and hard thinking) in their respective primes is based on Usyk's superior ring intelligence. He would never be dragged into a war by Evander. I believe he would outbox him, but it would not be an easy night for him. Not at all.

Fair statement.

[ONOFF]

You can be fan. I like usyk too but he nevef faced an elite American heavyweight in their prime. Even the Klitschkos didn't. They came when America didn't produce any more elite Heavyweight champions and thats the truth. Our last prime elite heavyweight champion was rid**** bowe. After 1997 all ofthe big athletic American athletes went to the NFL and thats a fact.

Correct! The NFL... the one major league that's culturally and structurally American-only. (no one else plays it). Kind of like the '80s and '90s, when Eastern Europeans were banned from participating in pro boxing, and Americans still called themselves "champions of the world."

The last refuge for American exceptionalism is the NFL — because nobody else cares about it apart from Americans themselves.

You had the same phenomenon in tennis. At one point, it was completely dominated by Americans (Sampras, Agassi, Courier, McEnroe, Connors, etc.). But once international competition caught up, it was over .... especially after the rise of Federer, Nadal, and Djokovic.

It's kind of embarrassing, really. During the 2024 Olympic basketball tournament, Jokic nearly led Serbia to an upset against a heavily favored and stacked American team — a roster featuring Curry, Booker, LeBron, Tatum, Davis, Durant, Edwards (to name a few). And yet, the U.S. only managed a narrow 95–91 win in a close semifinal.

Just imagine: Serbia’s population is approximately 6.6 million, while the United States has about 330 million people. Considering that massive difference, the Serbian basketball team coming so close to defeating the USA “Dream Team”... made up of some of the best NBA players — is statistically remarkable.

Serbia has roughly 1/50th the population of the U.S. Embarrassing. But hey, there’s always the NFL, right?

[IronDanHamza]

Dude you are the one who reference me giving James toney credit for looking good against holyfield. That was based on my on trend were we went back and forth.

https://www.boxingscene.com/forums/f...these-fighters

You were the one who brought that up and that was a debate about James toney vs canelo. Now you are trolling or a lair.

Its credit because its an official win on the books. However it has an asterisk because holyfield wasn't in his prime.

Isn't Barry Bonds the home run king ? Yes but since its an asterisk by his record Hank Aaron is the official legit king.

Its the same situation. Byrd gets credit but its not a legit measuring stick of holyfield skill set against southpaws. I Aint not contradicting nothing you just acting slow and its ok cuz I got time lol.

no dan's point doesn't stand because I already stated those loses has an asterisk because holyfield was not in his prime when he lost to Byrd.

Prime holyfield would had beaten Byrd. Just like a prime holyfield would had beaten Usyk. You guys are just prisoners of the moment. There's only one legit champion in Uysk era and it’s him everyone else ain't an all time great. None. But since boxing puts everyone in the hall of fame Tyson, AJ, Wilder will all go in and it will give uysk more credit in the long run.

Ok, so how do you not see that this directly contradicts your point in the other thread where you are attempting to give Toney credit for beating an older version of that Evander Holyfield?

And it’s not based on that thread, that thread happened months ago and I’d forgot it even existed.

It’s based on the Toney-Julian Jackson thread Are you slow or what? It’s on the FIRST PAGE of the history section. To which you attempt to give Toney credit for beating Holyfield.l and act like it’s something worth praising but then again directly contradict that in this thread by saying he was old when he fought Byrd.

[Bennyleonard99]

This post. Most of the opinions you post about Floyd.

Floyd is perfect. Marciano is perfect. Usyk hasn’t retired like they have, So to call him perfect as if he has is a bit premature.

I don’t think Kayabel or Parker beat him so I assume he will also retire with a perfect record.

Floyd was counterfeit perfect, he got a lot of help from the establishment, WBC, HBO, Showtime, Haymon, ducking, dodging, Vegas, illegal IVs, you name it. Too many ducks on his record, true greats don't duck anybody.

[The Big Dunn]

Floyd was counterfeit perfect, he got a lot of help from the establishment, WBC, HBO, Showtime, Haymon, ducking, dodging, Vegas, illegal IVs, you name it. Too many ducks on his record, true greats don't duck anybody.

You’re trying to hard to hide your real reason for trying to differentiate between perfect records.

SMDH!