Sorry Ali fans, Usyk has replaced him as “The Greatest” Heavyweight.

[aAgger]

Comparing Usyk to Ali boxing-wise
-Athletes far bigger/stronger in modern era, boxing more globalized
-Olympic gold, World Championship gold, World Cup silver vs just Olympic gold
-GOAT Cruiserweight career
-Moved up to HW and destroyed Joshua 2x, Fury 2x, Dubois 2x as a MUCH smaller man
-Won most of his fights on the road in enemy territory vs mostly U.S. for Ali
-Undefeated at 38 vs Ali’s multiple losses and gifts (Frazier, Norton, Spinks, etc)

- Ali and Usyk are the same size, and both fought bigger opponents.
- Only the Olympics matter. The other Amateur medals are irrelevant.
- There was no Cruiserweight division in Ali's time. Prime Ali was effectively a cruiserweight fighting heavyweights.
- Ali destroyed Hall of Famers like Liston, Frazier, Foreman, Cooper, Patterson, Shavers, etc.
- America WAS enemy territory for Ali. He was the most hated athlete in '60s America, due to his connections with Malcolm X and his opposition to the Vietnam War. Ali was more loved when he fought abroad in Europe, Africa and Asia. It wasn't until after the Foreman fight that mainstream White America began to love Ali.
- Ali had Parkinson's disease in his late '30s. It's a miracle that he was still fighting at all with Parkinson's disease. You're comparing apples to oranges.

Comparing Usyk to Ali outside the ring
-Usyk is always respectful, never trash-talks even when disrespected. Ali often taunted opponents, made inflammatory racial remarks, deeply hurt good people like Frazier and hurt their children too.
-Usyk is a true family man who never committed adultery or disrespected women, especially his wife. Ali was a serial adulterer, hurt many women.
-Ali was a hero to his people, but so is Usyk, who is a hero to not only the Ukrainian army and people, but to all of Western Europe and the entire Free World against Russian tyranny.
-Ali was constantly boastful and called himself great. Usyk is never boastful, never calls himself great, instead gives ALL glory to Jesus Christ.

- Ali pioneered trash talk for a reason. Black Americans weren't allowed to be disrespectful at the time, for fear of being lynched if they step out of line. Ali's trash talking style was a reaction to that. As for Frazier, Ali's dissing was an act to generate more money for both of them, which Ali later apologized for.
- I'll agree with you on is his infidelity. However, he later repented for his sins. No sin is beyond forgiveness.
- Ali was a hero to the whole world. Not just the so-called "Free World" (LOL), but the ENTIRE WORLD. America's invasion of Vietnam was infinitely more barbaric and tyrannical than Russia's invasion of Ukraine. Ali made personal sacrifices standing up for the people of Vietnam when no other athlete would. He cared not just for his people, but oppressed people across the world. And in turn, he was loved by people across the world.
- Ali always gave ALL glory to God. Even when he was trash talking, he always praised God as the greatest of all and thanked God for everything he ever achieved in life.

[The D3vil]

It's a ridiculous argument

Ali beat 3 top 15 HWs ever

Usyks never even face a top 15 HW ever.

Ali beat 4 Olympic gold medalists at HW

Usyk's only beaten 1.

Like, y'all are really arguing that beating Fury, Joshua, & Dubois makes you the GOAT

He's not even mowing them down in 1 or 2 rounds like say Mike Tyson or Sonny Liston would do.

He's beating most of these guys in decisions

This is recency bias on steroids.

[TheProudLunatic]

Chisora is about the same level as Shavers

Of course I had to stop there

People still mention Shavers to this day.
Chiwho ?!?!?

[Da Pimper]

fury aj dubois chisora are all about the same level as frazier, foreman, norton, liston, lyle. I say chisora beats frazier.

war chisora.

[Haka]

Yes indeed, eras ranked from best to worst:

- 20s Usyk goat
- 00 K Brothers + Lewis
- 10s K Brothers + Fury
- 90s Andy Ruiz > Michael Moorer
- 70, 80s Luis Ortiz and Frankie Sanchez would be boogeyman in this era

[Toffee]

He's not even mowing them down in 1 or 2 rounds like say Mike Tyson or Sonny Liston would do.

Where is this list of top fighters that Tyson was mowing down in one or two rounds?

Not Smith, Tucker, Ruddock, Holyfield, Douglas, Lewis...

He mowed down Bruno and Spinks.

[PRINCEKOOL]

Muhammad Ali retired in 1981 'Since then he has had numerous block buster movies, and documentaries made about him. He is not only a part of sporting history; he is a representation of the cultural movements of the 1960's and 70's. He is by far the greatest heavyweight champion, who has ever walked the face on the earth. Competing during an era when the Heavyweight title was the single greatest accolade any single man could aloft, when giants of sport walked the Earth. Muhammad Ali stood on top of the World'.

The thread starter has claimed that people who rate Muhammad Ali as the greatest heavyweight fighter of all-times are being nostalgic 'No they are being purely objective, statistically Oleksandr Uysk believe it or not still has not overtaken Mike Tyson let alone Muhammad Ali'.

If people all of a sudden rate Oleksandr Uysk as the greatest Heavyweight Champion of all-times 'All you people must now rate Tyson Fury and Anthony Joshua super highly, in terms of being all-time great fighters. Because those are his two best wins, on his entire resume'.

Oleksandr Uysk is for sure pound for pound the best fighters in boxing currently, I rate him at number 1 'And I would say he is a great heavyweight fighter within this era of boxing. But after beating Daniel Dubois II? A fighter who has already been smashed up and beaten many times before. I don't really think that elevates any heavyweight fighter into being the greatest heavyweight champion of all-times'.

So as a Heavyweight fighter, Oleksandr Uysk's to best wins were up against Tyson Fury I & II and Anthony Joshua I & II 'All four fights were competitive, Uysk no matter what anybody claims did not separate himself from ether Fury or Joshua. Not in the same way Mike Tyson, Lennox Lewis, Muhammad Ali or George Foreman did as Champions against other elite level fighters at times in their careers'.

Oleksandr Uysk beating Daniel Dubois I & II 'Is not comparable to Mike Tyson blasting out Michael Spinks in 91 seconds. It is nowhere near the level of that performance'.

And that is why in my opinion, this sudden mass pining and complete hysterics 'From certain folk in the boxing community, is just a bi-product of today's culture. Everything in the moment, is the greatest of all-times'.

So whether it is head to head or just purely statistically comparing resumes 'Oleksandr Uysk for sure is a great fighter, and a solid heavyweight Champion. Who in my opinion has taken advantage of an opportune time to enter the heavyweight Division. The Heavyweight Divisions by the time Uysk enter was already in its latter stages, Tyson Fury, Anthony Joshua and Deontay had already in combination cleared out the entire Division. This is common knowledge within the boxing community, the only thing left for them to do was to fight each other'.

If Uysk would have entered the heavyweight divisions early, he would have had to beat more heavyweight contenders and collide with better versions of Tyson Fury Anthony Joshua, and Derek Chisora'.

I do rate Oleksandr Uysk's two wins vs Tyson Fury and Anthony Joshua 'Pound for pound as the greatest wins of the past 15 years in boxing. But that is mainly because Uysk is a former cruiserweight fighter, the feat of beating two elite level super heavyweight fighters was extremely impressive'.

But it is widely accepted in the game, that neither Tyson Fury or Anthony Joshua were anywhere near their peak vs Oleksandr Uysk I & II 'For many years leading up to the first Uysk vs Joshua fight? Anthony Joshua was continually being mocked and describe as a traumatically damaged fighter. And Tyson Fury similar to Muhammad Ali had his peak years in the game taken away from him, due to his exodus from the sport and trials and tribulations he had to endure'.

Even still Oleksandr Uysk only marginally beat both Tyson Fury and Anthony Joshua 'Uysk was not mikes ahead in any of the four fights. Oleksandr Uysk had the best opportunity that any professional fighter has ever had to legitimate knock out Tyson Fury in round 9 of their first fight? And yet he still struggled to put Tyson Fury down on the deck. If people want to make out Uysk is a unbeatable fighter head to head, those are the moments in a fighters career which matter'.

Muhammad Ali was the first and only heavyweight fighter to knock out George Foreman 'Once again there is no performance or win on Oleksandr Uysk's resume, that comes anywhere near to that level. Daniel Dubois as a heavyweight fighter is a front runner at top level, and that is the only solid heavyweight fighter Uysk has been able to legitimately knock out'.

If people rate Oleksandr Uysk so highly on an all-time heavyweight scale 'Then you have to also rate Tyson Fury and Anthony Joshua right there with him. Because statistically along with Deontay Wilder, they are the three heavyweight mountains of this era. In combination they cleared out the entire heavyweight Division'.

Derek Chisora was already miles outside of his peak when he fought Oleksandr Uysk 'And he pushed Uysk right to the line in that fight. Again? If people want match Uysk head to head with all of the other past great heavyweight fighters, this is the evidence which people use to compare fighters'.

David Haye who I believe as a Cruiserweight fighter at his peak was a better, more brutal and dangerous fighter than Oleksandr Uysk 'In 2012 David Haye fought Derek Chisora at his absolute peak. David Haye weighing in at 210 pounds vs Derek Chisora 247 pounds. Haye became the first fighter to meet force with force and cancel out Chisora's momentum, being the first fighter to not only deck but knock out Chisora at his near peak as a fighter. Derek Chisora after this fight, would not be decked or knocked out for another 7 years almost. Chisora fought 18 more times, before eventually being legitimately knocked out again by Dillian Whyte in their rematch'.

To conclude: The reason why I am highlighting all of those performances by past great fighters 'Is because it shows that head to head, Oleksandr Uysk is not a formidable or most terrifying fighter of all times. They are just the facts. David Haye fought Derek Chisora in 2012 and knocked him out inside 5 rounds, Oleksandr Uysk fought Derek Chisora in 2020, 8 years later. And Usyk was battered and pushed right to the line by Chisora'.

As I have stated in other threads, people can have their opinons 'And have debates. There is nothing wrong with that. But my opinion is that in regards to Oleksandr Uysk, people need to calm down and just put his performances in perspective. He is great fighter, the most accomplished current active fighter in the entire sport. But in my opinion I think Uysk, took advantage to enter the heavyweight at an opportune time. And this tactically improved the likely -hood of him being the best Heavyweight fighter in the world' etc.

[Bennyleonard99]

war chisora.

Too big and too strong for Joe, possible mismatch because of that.

[HisExcellency]

Kids, what can you say.
Frazier(2-1)
Foreman(1-0)
Norton(1-1, suffered a broken jaw during his decision loss)
Bob Foster(1-0)
Floyd Patterson(2-0)
Jimmy Ellis(1-0)
Sonny Liston(2-0)
Usyk is good but hasn't faced this kind of competition. But then again, fans nowadays think canelo is the last coca-cola in the desert.

True but you can't overlook the fact that Usyk is a natural Cruiserweight (unlike Ali) who stepped up and defeated the best Heavyweights of his generation TWICE without going down once to become undisputed champion twice.

Can't really ask for any more than that.

[The Big Dunn]

True but you can't overlook the fact that Usyk is a natural Cruiserweight (unlike Ali) who stepped up and defeated the best Heavyweights of his generation TWICE without going down once to become undisputed champion twice.

Can't really ask for any more than that.

While you can’t count his crusier run toward HWT, it’s that run that helps position him high on the ATG list imo.