I doubt Usyk would be 2 division champion in any other era

[Rayzah]

the heavyweight division has always had smaller and successful heavyweights.....Patterson, Marciano, Ali, Tyson, Holyfield, Hayes and now Usyk...GTFOH

[M312]

Vitali got his ass kicked by Byrd. A smaller HW southpaw not terribly unlike Usyk.

My point is both K2 bros got beaten by southpaws.

I'm on your side, but let's not make things up.

Vitali was well up until he tore his rotator cuff.

BUT Byrd was nowhere near the quality of Usyk, so it's a moot point anyway.

[BodyBagz]

None of these HW's would amount to anything in any other era.
This is the worst.
The future doesn't look too bright either.

[BodyBagz]

I'm on your side, but let's not make things up.

Vitali was well up until he tore his rotator cuff.

BUT Byrd was nowhere near the quality of Usyk, so it's a moot point anyway.

MFers love to bring up Byrd
Yet always neglect to tell the WHOLE STORY.

''The fight. Klitschko controlled most of the fight with Byrd being elusive and making himself a difficult target. After 9 rounds Vitali had suffered a torn rotator cuff and despite being clearly ahead on the scorecards (88-83, 88-83, & 89-82) he retired on his stool handing the win to Byrd.''

Vit was beating that ass.
You can tell a lot about a ''fight'' fan when they leave out the important parts of a fight.

[NEETzschean]

MFers love to bring up Byrd
Yet always neglect to tell the WHOLE STORY.

''The fight. Klitschko controlled most of the fight with Byrd being elusive and making himself a difficult target. After 9 rounds Vitali had suffered a torn rotator cuff and despite being clearly ahead on the scorecards (88-83, 88-83, & 89-82) he retired on his stool handing the win to Byrd.''

Vit was beating that ass.
You can tell a lot about a ''fight'' fan when they leave out the important parts of a fight.

Dodgy German scorecards, Compubox had it 132-124. Vitali couldn't put a dent in a blown up LHW southpaw over 9 rounds, then he quit and never sought a rematch. Vitali's resume was very poor given his reputation (weaker than Wilder's) and he couldn't even drop a weak chinned Lewis (sparked out with one shot by two fringe contenders), despite throwing the kitchen sink for 6 rounds.

[NEETzschean]

Well the only CW champ that even has a chance of beating him is Holyfield & he doesn't have the best record vs southpaws in fact he lost to Moorer at HW
There probably aren't many HW champs you'd favour either and if so its baseless speculation as many never fought a southpaw. You can't learn how to fight a southpaw in one camp.

I think Wladimir Klitschko is the only HW champion that had real success vs southpaws going 5-1 or 6-1.
The rest barely if at all ever fought a southpaw now we're expected to believe that the most complex HW southpaw style, the most skilled southpaw of all wouldn't give them fits?

Usyk is a big ass problem for any HW in any era. In fact todays fighters are far from better equipped to fight southpaws and for most part they don't tend too fare too well.

Facts.

[NEETzschean]

Any other era? I'm fairly certain Usyk beats Corbett, Braddock, Schmeling, Carnera. Would be very competitive versus Johnson, Dempsey, Louis, Charles, Walcott, Marciano.
Not too sure about Holmes, Frazier, Holyfield. And he's not beating Ali.

The massively overrated Ali would have virtually no chance against Usyk if we're objective, which 80-90% of boxing fans are not.

1966 Ali vs 2018 Usyk

Ali: 24 years old, started boxing at age 12, 88 confirmed amateur bouts with a record of 80-8 (3 rounders, 247 rounds max), 25 pro (144 rounds contested), stopped 9 pro opponents who were 197+ lbs

Usyk: 31 years old, started boxing at age 15, 350 amateur bouts with a record of 335-15 (3-4 rounders, 1076-1332 rounds max), 6 WSB (25 rounds contested), 14 pro (105 rounds contested), stopped 11 WSB/pro opponents who were 197+ lbs (pre-rehydration)

Ali had been knocked down from head shots twice in the previous 15 fights/4.5 years (Sonny Banks, Henry Cooper), was almost exclusively a head hunter, hadn’t fought a southpaw in 6 years, had lost to at least two southpaws in the amateurs (Kent Green by TKO2, Amos Johnson by SD3), 2013 Usyk was heavier than 28/33 of Ali’s pre-Mathis opponents (Ali himself was very big for his era) and as much as 9 lbs heavier than 1966 Ali, who had gone the distance with 5 of his 25 pro opponents (17-9-1 186 lbs Hunsaker, 15-11-1 225 lbs Sabedong, 18-7 189 lbs Johnson, 23-3-1 188 lbs Jones, 34-11-2 216 lbs Chuvalo), whereas Usyk (the best southpaw heavyweight of all time) hasn’t been stopped or dropped with a headshot in a combined total of 377 fights, amateur and pro and has an IQ which is almost certainly at least two standard deviations above Ali’s (78).

1966 Ali had a highly competitive fight with 49-2-3 European champion southpaw Mildenberger over 11.5 rounds (Ali admitted that he found Mildenberger’s stance and boxing ability very difficult to deal with), who was billed as being 6’1.5 with a 73 inch reach and 195 lbs (4-3-1 in non-KD rounds according to two of the three judges, 154-144 punches landed out of 612-538 thrown according to Compubox; by contrast Usyk outlanded the 6’2, 79.5 inch reach, 198 lbs, undefeated American Olympian Hunter 321-190, throwing 905-794 over 12 rounds). Mildenberger had been KO’d twice (once in the 1st round by 30-12-2, 201 lbs **** Richardson, who had 2 stoppage wins in his previous 9 fights) and dropped numerous times in 54 pro fights, registered a 31% KO ratio with 0 KO’s in his previous 5 fights and had a 52-12 amateur record, with winning the German LHW championship being his best amateur accomplishment.

A more skilled, mature, durable and experienced 1973 Ali lost by a wide margin (117-112 Boxrec consensus, 233-171 punches landed according to Compubox) to Ken Norton: a suspect-chinned boxer with a padded 29-1 record and only 8 years of boxing experience since his amateur debut, who took up boxing in his early 20’s and had never been in a 12 rounder prior to facing Ali.

Usyk has studied Ali extensively, sparred and beaten many opponents influenced by him and has modern advantages in terms of training and "nutrition", as well as a tougher upbringing being from a working-class family in post-Soviet Ukraine, with a modern Eastern European style that Ali never experienced (the old Soviet school was limited to the amateurs in those days).

Ali’s objective chance = sub-5%.

[NEETzschean]

Lol, Vitali Klitschko would beat him brutally, Wladimir also.

Wladimir would beat Fury in a rematch, Fury knew it and ducked it.

Who did Vitali beat? Uhh...Corrie Sanders? Chisora? We know he quit against LHW Byrd, who he never hurt over 9 rounds and never sought a rematch. Overrated.

Wlad got schooled by Usyk in sparring, lost to three ham and eggers and even blew it against Joshua. His best win may well have been David Haye and he was taken to school in his backyard by Fury, who had no incentive to rematch the slimeball.

Wlad would be a much tougher fight for Usyk than the oafish Vitali but even Wlad would be the underdog against Usyk without Pabon as the referee. Wlad never beat anyone close to as good as Usyk, whereas Usyk schooled one of his conquerors Joshua.

[billeau2]

This, this is why fury will crush Usyk. Fury has two options, he can box on the outside with his reach or he can pressure you and use his size and fight inside. So Fury has two options in the fight. Usyk has basically 1 main option for the fight and that is to dart in and out of range for 12 rounds, hope he is never dropped and hope he can out land Fury. Sure he can make micro adjustments but he only has one option. Fury has two options if things dont go his way.

Walking Usyk down is obviously the way to go BUT lets say something happened, lets say he cant cut off the ring for some reason (doubt with his giant legs his strides are long and he is quick for his size) then he can go option 2 which is to box Usyk with his reach and Usyk has even more ground to cover with Fury darting in and out of range.

IMO I don't think Fury needs to walk Usyk down... If you take Fury's reach advantage, and then consider how well Fury fights off his back leg, He literally has two sword lengths of distance to react to anything Usyk does. Keeping in mind that Usyk is not a fighter who is used to having shorter length... unlike Canelo for example... And Fury fights off his back leg better than most heavyweights ever did.

It would be like you and me getting ready to fight and I have a six foot staff to hit you with. I simply cannot see how Usyke overcomes this... Fury jabs him into oblivion.

[dan-b]

The massively overrated Ali would have virtually no chance against Usyk if we're objective, which 80-90% of boxing fans are not.

1966 Ali vs 2018 Usyk

Ali: 24 years old, started boxing at age 12, 88 confirmed amateur bouts with a record of 80-8 (3 rounders, 247 rounds max), 25 pro (144 rounds contested), stopped 9 pro opponents who were 197+ lbs

Usyk: 31 years old, started boxing at age 15, 350 amateur bouts with a record of 335-15 (3-4 rounders, 1076-1332 rounds max), 6 WSB (25 rounds contested), 14 pro (105 rounds contested), stopped 11 WSB/pro opponents who were 197+ lbs (pre-rehydration)

Ali had been knocked down from head shots twice in the previous 15 fights/4.5 years (Sonny Banks, Henry Cooper), was almost exclusively a head hunter, hadn’t fought a southpaw in 6 years, had lost to at least two southpaws in the amateurs (Kent Green by TKO2, Amos Johnson by SD3), 2013 Usyk was heavier than 28/33 of Ali’s pre-Mathis opponents (Ali himself was very big for his era) and as much as 9 lbs heavier than 1966 Ali, who had gone the distance with 5 of his 25 pro opponents (17-9-1 186 lbs Hunsaker, 15-11-1 225 lbs Sabedong, 18-7 189 lbs Johnson, 23-3-1 188 lbs Jones, 34-11-2 216 lbs Chuvalo), whereas Usyk (the best southpaw heavyweight of all time) hasn’t been stopped or dropped with a headshot in a combined total of 377 fights, amateur and pro and has an IQ which is almost certainly at least two standard deviations above Ali’s (78).

1966 Ali had a highly competitive fight with 49-2-3 European champion southpaw Mildenberger over 11.5 rounds (Ali admitted that he found Mildenberger’s stance and boxing ability very difficult to deal with), who was billed as being 6’1.5 with a 73 inch reach and 195 lbs (4-3-1 in non-KD rounds according to two of the three judges, 154-144 punches landed out of 612-538 thrown according to Compubox; by contrast Usyk outlanded the 6’2, 79.5 inch reach, 198 lbs, undefeated American Olympian Hunter 321-190, throwing 905-794 over 12 rounds). Mildenberger had been KO’d twice (once in the 1st round by 30-12-2, 201 lbs **** Richardson, who had 2 stoppage wins in his previous 9 fights) and dropped numerous times in 54 pro fights, registered a 31% KO ratio with 0 KO’s in his previous 5 fights and had a 52-12 amateur record, with winning the German LHW championship being his best amateur accomplishment.

A more skilled, mature, durable and experienced 1973 Ali lost by a wide margin (117-112 Boxrec consensus, 233-171 punches landed according to Compubox) to Ken Norton: a suspect-chinned boxer with a padded 29-1 record and only 8 years of boxing experience since his amateur debut, who took up boxing in his early 20’s and had never been in a 12 rounder prior to facing Ali.

Usyk has studied Ali extensively, sparred and beaten many opponents influenced by him and has modern advantages in terms of training and "nutrition", as well as a tougher upbringing being from a working-class family in post-Soviet Ukraine, with a modern Eastern European style that Ali never experienced (the old Soviet school was limited to the amateurs in those days).

Ali’s objective chance = sub-5%.

Nice copy pasta. That supposed "objective chance" is pseudoscience based on nothing.