Did Joe Calzaghe do enough to warrent a fight with Roy?

[bsrizpac]

I UNDERSTAND what your saying... just because there were people saying Roy wasnt shot... doesnt mean he wasnt shot... or somehow makes it a better win...

I didnt think he was shot, just putting on the performance he didn in january.. tito or no tito... SHOT fighters can barely let off a combination to ANY fighter..

Lets not forget... he still has 4 knockdowns in his last 3 fights... not too bad for being completely gone... :roy4:

Let's get this out of the way: Roy is the greatest fighter in his prime that I have EVER seen. And it's not close.

When he was KOed by Tarver - I could not believe it. It was the most ridiculous thing I've seen since Tyson vs. Douglas in ANY sport. Although some other sports have come close to these two but yeah this was it. World upside down type stuff.

I got the Roy vs. Tito PPV with a bunch of friends, and watched it. We all loved it, cheered Roy on and laughed as he was kicking Tito's ass. It was great.

Then after the fight I sobered up and watched the fight again.

Let's just say I wasn't fooled. Knockdowns or not.

What I attack about Joe C's resume I'll do to Roy now:

Tito was more shot than dirt. Here is a guy who can't even be bothered to leave the buffet long enough to show up for a fight. He barely cares. You can tell. He's more shot than Roy and doesn't even want it anymore. I wont go inot the size issue, the inactivity, the fact that he's a fatass and that he'd rather not fight except for money (check out his calling out DLH after the Roy fight lol).

Prince Alladan and Hanshaw- nobodies. Never weres. I'm glad Roy beat them and knocked them down or whatever, but would we be having this conversation if it was Ricky Frazier. To top it off Roy struggled in those fights, quite a bit.

Like I said, I applaud your love for Roy, I have it to. But in the end he was done. He sadly, should have hung it up after Tarver. Actually after Tarver 1 to keep his legacy intact. He'll always be a champ to me.

But with his suspect chin, all he had was will and his degraded athleticism. I guess most normal shot fighters look worse than Roy, but it's Roy. His shot self still looks flashy and fun at times. Because it's Roy Jones Jr.

There was no risk here for Joe. He knew that. Hell he admitted it in his biography.

[THE REED]

OK were getting somewhere BS, I can take your view on Roy being shot as your view, ok fair enough. What I and most would not be able to take, is your assertion that because that is your somewhat legimate view, that is should be EVERYONES.

There were a lot of people favouring Roy over Calzaghe like even David Haye and Hopkins. Now those guys aren't the best of judges, but not the worst either, and certainly not idiots. I'd love to see you call them that to their face though (kidding).

I wonder just how shot you really thought Hopkins was. I think in general you tend to exaggerate how shot your guy is to look better after wards. That's just my view, and that too is quite a legimitate one.

Did you expect Hopkins to defeat Pavlik, and in the way that he did?

Who were the idiots in the scenario, the ones thinking Hops would beat Joe, or the ones that thought he couldn't beat Pavlik? There's always an idiot right, and it's generally whomever disagree's with you to too much of a degree.

Yeah.... I lost 3.2 million on Bernard beating Pavlik... Imagine that... Me betting on a white fighter

I dont think I was an idiot for thinking Pavlik would beat Bernard... I was taking into account the fact Bernard was 43 god damn years old... I dont think anyone saw Pavlik losing every single round....

[Kris Silver]

The difference is great joe is a prick... LOL I dont think Kris is a prick.

Oh he is, complete fuckhead, honestly.

[hammerhiem]

Bz, do you think if RJJ had offered Joe the same money as "plucking name out of my ass" Richard Hall to fight in Indy, Joe would have said no.

Honest answer.

[THE REED]

Let's get this out of the way: Roy is the greatest fighter in his prime that I have EVER seen. And it's not close.

When he was KOed by Tarver - I could not believe it. It was the most ridiculous thing I've seen since Tyson vs. Douglas in ANY sport. Although some other sports have come close to these two but yeah this was it. World upside down type stuff.

I got the Roy vs. Tito PPV with a bunch of friends, and watched it. We all loved it, cheered Roy on and laughed as he was kicking Tito's ass. It was great.

Then after the fight I sobered up and watched the fight again.

Let's just say I wasn't fooled. Knockdowns or not.

What I attack about Joe C's resume I'll do to Roy now:

Tito was more shot than dirt. Here is a guy who can't even be bothered to leave the buffet long enough to show up for a fight. He barely cares. You can tell. He's more shot than Roy and doesn't even want it anymore. I wont go inot the size issue, the inactivity, the fact that he's a fatass and that he'd rather not fight except for money (check out his calling out DLH after the Roy fight lol).

Prince Alladan and Hanshaw- nobodies. Never weres. I'm glad Roy beat them and knocked them down or whatever, but would we be having this conversation if it was Ricky Frazier. To top it off Roy struggled in those fights, quite a bit.

Like I said, I applaud your love for Roy, I have it to. But in the end he was done. He sadly, should have hung it up after Tarver. Actually after Tarver 1 to keep his legacy intact. He'll always be a champ to me.

But with his suspect chin, all he had was will and his degraded athleticism. I guess most normal shot fighters look worse than Roy, but it's Roy. His shot self still looks flashy and fun at times. Because it's Roy Jones Jr.

There was no risk here for Joe. He knew that. Hell he admitted it in his biography.

that made me feel a little better, thanks

[IMDAZED]

Bz, do you think if RJJ had offered Joe the same money as "plucking name out of my ass" Richard Hall to fight in Indy, Joe would have said no.

Honest answer.

Richard Hall was a mandatory.

Sometimes we forget there is a way to make a fight happen. usually that involves fighting. As Clegg mentioned, what if Joe Calzaghe moved up and fought Virgil Hill? Or Eric Harding? Or the slew of other LHW's who needed some bread? Don't think that would've created some buzz?

Here's a better question...how did Antonio Tarver get his shot?

[bsrizpac]

OK were getting somewhere BS, I can take your view on Roy being shot as your view, ok fair enough. What I and most would not be able to take, is your assertion that because that is your somewhat legimate view, that is should be EVERYONES.

There were a lot of people favouring Roy over Calzaghe like even David Haye and Hopkins. Now those guys aren't the best of judges, but not the worst either, and certainly not idiots. I'd love to see you call them that to their face though (kidding).

I wonder just how shot you really thought Hopkins was. I think in general you tend to exaggerate how shot your guy is to look better after wards. That's just my view, and that too is quite a legimitate one.

Did you expect Hopkins to defeat Pavlik, and in the way that he did?

Who were the idiots in the scenario, the ones thinking Hops would beat Joe, or the ones that thought he couldn't beat Pavlik? There's always an idiot right, and it's generally whomever disagree's with you to too much of a degree.

Did you even read my logic thread. I really think you should about fight predictions and what they mean in reality. I'm not saying that as my opinion it's a basic tenant of logic. Look it up.

That being said, I thought Hops would win, but not as easily as he did. Anorak and I had debated this before the fight, he thought it would be a wipeout I thought it would be close due to stamina. What I didn't factor in was Pavlik folding like a lawnchair in round 3 and thus being a punching bag (so I don't think that fight showed anything bout Hops stamina). I was ringside and I could see it clearly.

I think Hopkins is amazing but clearly he's not as good as he used to be. He is shot to some degree as a younger Hopkins never faded in stamina (before Winky). It's obvious to see he can't keep up a big pace anymore and it's been on a steady decline since at least Joppy.

Roy is shot is my view fine whatever. I've had it for how many years? I've presented tons of evidence and videos.

And the only response you and other Joe fans is "well he's not that shot" without addressing any of my points. We can list all of them out again if you'd like. It's not like I'm just saying he's shot and oh that's my view.

I have time and time and time again listed tons of reasons. What's your reason that he's not shot? Hypothetically he still looks good? wahoo.

Evidence: When's the last time he fought a top 10 LHW before Joe? What year? What happened? What happened after (retirement etc). What happened before and when?

[Kris Silver]

Yeah.... I lost 3.2 million on Bernard beating Pavlik... Imagine that... Me betting on a white fighter

I dont think I was an idiot for thinking Pavlik would beat Bernard... I was taking into account the fact Bernard was 43 god damn years old... I dont think anyone saw Pavlik losing every single round....

Exactly, it's very telling. In no way am I suggesting Roy isn't less past it then Hops and clearly he is by some degree. But I still think that same pattern has occured for Roy, in that a lot do think he's more past it than he is. It's almost like people especially fans, find it easier to write off a guy and think of him at his best, then carry on giving him a fair shot in his later years.

Oh, and shame on you for your poor ******y.

[bsrizpac]

Bz, do you think if RJJ had offered Joe the same money as "plucking name out of my ass" Richard Hall to fight in Indy, Joe would have said no.

Honest answer.

I'm not sure what this question is. I mean Joe rejected anything that wasn't top flight money in Roy's prime according to Joe. Even when Joe says he called out Roy (the link and quotes he posted) Joe admits that "I was the champ why should I have to go meet Roy".

And then there's the "I am scared of flying excuse". So what is your question exactly?

[bsrizpac]

Exactly, it's very telling. In no way am I suggesting Roy isn't less past it then Hops and clearly he is by some degree. But I still think that same pattern has occured for Roy, in that a lot do think he's more past it than he is. It's almost like people especially fans, find it easier to write off a guy and think of him at his best, then carry on giving him a fair shot in his later years.

Oh, and shame on you for your poor ******y.

You've said this stuff over and over and over again.

Fine- what's your proof? I've asked so many times. What has Roy DONE to make you think this?