Who's A More Complete Fighter Pernell or Floyd?

[Wiley Hyena]

Great post.

I have to differ with you on the completeness of Pernell. He is not all that complete, but he is so talented that he could improvise ways to beat anyone.

His fundamentals are not as strong as Floyd's are, and he is not as well versed in all manners of fighting as Floyd is, but even so, he would demolish Floyd in any style he chose, just because he is that good.

He is like Muhammad Ali, to a lesser extent. Muhammad Ali was an incredibly incomplete fighter, but he was so smart in the ring, and so talented that he could overcome this.

Umm...Ali an incredibly incomplete fighter?

Well, I disagree with your reasoning, but agree with your conclusion.

Pernell was better than Floyd. Both have great defense and specialize in making opponents miss. But Pernell had more power IMO and fought better competition.

[shawn_]

Yes Ali incredibly incomplete. Name some of Ali's solid fundamentals.

His Jab, and his footwork. He had no defense beyond his god given gift of athleticism. This showed more and more as he got older, but he was smart and crafty and could improvised solutions using the skills he had.

Ali won fights on pure ring generalship in his later career. That is why I love him.

[Steak]

Ali was a very incomplete fighter. he had no infighting ability and did many things wrong in the ring. but he found ways to win anyway.

Pernell fought better competition, but he did not have more power than Floyd. Floyd has way more snap to his punches. Sweet Pea is kind of like Winky Wright, he doesnt put a ton behind his punches. but they came out very very quick. Whitaker had power when he really used it, but he just didnt use it much. Floyd has always been an explosive puncher.

[Wiley Hyena]

Yes Ali incredibly incomplete. Name some of Ali's solid fundamentals.

His Jab, and his footwork. He had no defense beyond his god given gift of athleticism. This showed more and more as he got older, but he was smart and crafty and could improvised solutions using the skills he had.

Ali won fights on pure ring generalship in his later career. That is why I love him.

We will have to agree to disagree on this. Ali had great boxing skills and superior athletic talent to boot. That's why he is an all time great.
1. Great jab, which he could double into a short left hook in the blink of an eye.
2. Very fast straight right hand, that he looped in behind the jab to hurt or knock out his opponents.
3. Great defense. He was a master in picking off punches with his gloves and his foot speed in his prime was such that he could move into range and out like a middle weight. He was adept at all sorts of defensive devices. A master of the art of defense.
4. Blurringly fast combinations. He could mix straights with hooks in the same salvo. He could also mix up combinations to include the body and the head.
5. Deceptively powerful puncher. Could stun opponents even when he was going backwards. Could legitimately stun opponents with his jab.
6. Excellent vision. It was a rare for an opponent to be able to hit Ali without Ali seeing the punch.
7. Capitialized on a very good reach with footspeed and quickness.
8. Phenomenal punching accuracy.
9. Almost invulnerable to body shots. IF he was ever hurt by a body shot, he never showed it in the ring. Effective at using his arms to cover his ribs while at the same time covering his face when electing to go inside or was on the ropes.
10. Fought on his toes or sat back on his punches according to his needs at the time.
11. Very effective at nullifying an opponent's power and attack by using his arms to interfere with their attempts to punch.
12. Used ring movement to frustrate opponents and nullify their power.

This is just 12. There are more skills I could name but I think you get the general idea.

Nope. Ali was not incredibly incomplete. He was incredibly complete.

[Wiley Hyena]

Ali was a very incomplete fighter. he had no infighting ability and did many things wrong in the ring. but he found ways to win anyway.

Pernell fought better competition, but he did not have more power than Floyd. Floyd has way more snap to his punches. Sweet Pea is kind of like Winky Wright, he doesnt put a ton behind his punches. but they came out very very quick. Whitaker had power when he really used it, but he just didnt use it much. Floyd has always been an explosive puncher.

I wouldn't say "an explosive" puncher. We just disagree here. I've never been impressed with Floyd's power, or lack thereof. Not to say he cannot hit pretty hard at times. His stoppages imo are usually the product of accumulation and worn down opponents. Nothing wrong with this either. I just don't agree that he is a powerful puncher. He delivered a good body shot to Mitchell though. But, Mitchell was ready to go anyway IMO.

[deuce_drop]

ok, that has nothing to do with who is a more complete fighter.. who you fought mean your more complete?? how does that make sense?

sorry i wasn't making comparisons in detail of why i think one is more complete than the other, if i had to say, what i mentioned on was what separated the two in my opinion. complete in beating better opposition and in giving the crowd their moneys worth. tit for tat down the line i'm going to have a long list in which i don't have the patients to write or go over currently, but i will say that they do have similarities and subtle differences as well as distinct characteristics but one thing sweet pea did when ever the chance was present or imminent he would take the chance to put an end to the fight, and that is one thing in mayweather's characteristic that he doesn't have or do all the time or at obvious moments, so edge to whitaker.


complete? who's complete? but from splitting hairs i'd have to go with whitaker.

[wmute]

We will have to agree to disagree on this. Ali had great boxing skills and superior athletic talent to boot. That's why he is an all time great.
1. Great jab, which he could double into a short left hook in the blink of an eye.
2. Very fast straight right hand, that he looped in behind the jab to hurt or knock out his opponents.
3. Great defense. He was a master in picking off punches with his gloves and his foot speed in his prime was such that he could move into range and out like a middle weight. He was adept at all sorts of defensive devices. A master of the art of defense.
4. Blurringly fast combinations. He could mix straights with hooks in the same salvo. He could also mix up combinations to include the body and the head.
5. Deceptively powerful puncher. Could stun opponents even when he was going backwards. Could legitimately stun opponents with his jab.
6. Excellent vision. It was a rare for an opponent to be able to hit Ali without Ali seeing the punch.
7. Capitialized on a very good reach with footspeed and quickness.
8. Phenomenal punching accuracy.
9. Almost invulnerable to body shots. IF he was ever hurt by a body shot, he never showed it in the ring. Effective at using his arms to cover his ribs while at the same time covering his face when electing to go inside or was on the ropes.
10. Fought on his toes or sat back on his punches according to his needs at the time.
11. Very effective at nullifying an opponent's power and attack by using his arms to interfere with their attempts to punch.
12. Used ring movement to frustrate opponents and nullify their power.

This is just 12. There are more skills I could name but I think you get the general idea.

Nope. Ali was not incredibly incomplete. He was incredibly complete.

Half of what you mention is not fundamantals, its natural talent, which Ali has in huge amounts

Ali is flawed anyway you look at him.

Incredible defense? come on leaning away from punches is not good defense, it's something he could get away with because he was a freak of nature.

[wmute]

Great post.

I have to differ with you on the completeness of Pernell. He is not all that complete, but he is so talented that he could improvise ways to beat anyone.

His fundamentals are not as strong as Floyd's are, and he is not as well versed in all manners of fighting as Floyd is, but even so, he would demolish Floyd in any style he chose, just because he is that good.

He is like Muhammad Ali, to a lesser extent. Muhammad Ali was an incredibly incomplete fighter, but he was so smart in the ring, and so talented that he could overcome this.

lol... living in the past, eh?

mind I have no problem with Whitaker beating any lightweight, and that obviously includes PBF.

But... Demolish is just bull****.

[SkillspayBills]

lolz, what power are you talkin about? you must mean when he was at the lower weights, cause he has no power now.

He has more power than Pernell.

[Saxon_Christ]

Sweet Pea was undefeated till he fought a prime Oscar De La Hoya while he was past his prime. and even that fight is a maybe win for him.

his first unvontroversial loss was when he was on crack and fighting Trinidad.

Man, there is some serious lack of knowledge on this forum!

Whittaker lost to Joe Luis Ramirez for the WBC lightweight title as he made the the step up to world level. Pay attention people!!

Anyway, Brandish you sais "I call bull****, floyd does not show off in the ring, nor does he juke and jive like sweet pea did. there's a reason why floyd is undefeated and sweet pea wasn't"

The reason for that was because Sweet Pea fought a much higher level of opposition to Floyd, plain and simple! You cant seriously compare Castillo or Corrales to Julio Cesar Chavez, Ramirez or Nelson when talking about Lightweight opposition and you can't compare Gatti, Judah or Baldomir to Oscar or McGirt when talking about Welterweight opposition.

Whittaker's resume speaks for itself and consider the fact that 3 of his 4 defeats came when he was shot and in the twightlight of his career. There is no comparrison or argument in my eyes.

Pernell all the way baby!!!