How would Joe Louis and Rocky Marciano fare against modern Heavies?

[billeau2]

Louis was ko'd twice.Galento couldnt box his way out of a paper bag,he was beaten by moderate fighters some of whom he outweighed by over 50lbs

Galento was not good in the way we look at fighters now, but he had his ways... I thought Louis was knocked down once in their fight.

[billeau2]

I don't think Marciano's frame supported the addition of extra weight,he was not only short but ,apart from his legs,quite slight.

I forget what president it was at the time: They saw Marciano and said "you look small" Obviously Marciano had something special... He had enough size so that he could fight out of a perpetual crouch and made it difficult to catch him. He had two left feet, he was clumsy, but boy could he punch! (this comes from a quote from some trainer). My point is: if Marciano was a smallish cruiserweight with little boxing skills and that was that... we could not explain him beating great fighters, even past prime. I know you feel that the explanation explains how he was succesful, but didn't Moore and Charles have some more wins after fighting Marciano?

[QueensburyRules]

I don't think Marciano's frame supported the addition of extra weight,he was not only short but ,apart from his legs,quite slight.

- - Completely unsupported claptrap. Rocky was an incredible force in his day when men was still fighters and not posers of today that stained the legacy of great American fighters.

Knocking out bigger fighters than ever just gives Rocky a bigger sneer. He'd be ripped at 210 using modern training.

[Ivich]

Galento was not good in the way we look at fighters now, but he had his ways... I thought Louis was knocked down once in their fight.

Sorry I misunderstood you I thought you were referring to Louis' two ko defeats.

[them_apples]

- - Completely unsupported claptrap. Rocky was an incredible force in his day when men was still fighters and not posers of today that stained the legacy of great American fighters.

Knocking out bigger fighters than ever just gives Rocky a bigger sneer. He'd be ripped at 210 using modern training.

go on gettyimages and search marciano sparring, dude was an animal, small but so strong

[Dr. Z]

Tua had pretty fast hands ,his Achilles Heel was slow feet.Frazier was quick into range, George Benton was brought in by Futch to give Joe a right hand and he developed a pretty effective uppercut with it, but his power punch was always his hook. How effective Tua was is beside the point he was a pressure fighter which Them Apples initially denied.

This is true. But we don't see anymore heavyweights that are short like Tua anymore. Gone are the short one punch slugger types. The Joe Frazier style is a rarity. You need to be extra strong in the chin department, and Frazier was not. You also need a lot of heart and stamina which Frazier had. He did not have much of a right hand though or jab. There are 2 prospects like today at heavyweight who have the Joe Frazier body type and style. The sub 6'1" small heavyweight with a swarming / attacking type of style.

Yet the sub 200 pound, sub six foot heavyweights are extinct today especially those with power are OUT of the game today, replaced by Super Heavyweights. The 6'4" 79" + reach 230 variety. Heavyweights with these dimensions were rare 30 years ago. Today they are commonplace. See my top heavyweight prospect list which I plan to write over the weekend. It will be a good detailed look at the heavyweights prospects. You'll have to go to the general forum though to read it.

[Ivich]

I forget what president it was at the time: They saw Marciano and said "you look small" Obviously Marciano had something special... He had enough size so that he could fight out of a perpetual crouch and made it difficult to catch him. He had two left feet, he was clumsy, but boy could he punch! (this comes from a quote from some trainer). My point is: if Marciano was a smallish cruiserweight with little boxing skills and that was that... we could not explain him beating great fighters, even past prime. I know you feel that the explanation explains how he was succesful, but didn't Moore and Charles have some more wins after fighting Marciano?

Eisenhower.Moore didnt really do much at heavyweight after losing to Marciano I think the only ranked heavy he beat was Lavorante who was very briefly ranked
I think the first Rocky fight basically ****ed Charles. Charles had 23 more fights losing more than half of them,and those he beat were second raters.

Attrition punchers do that to you.
Layne,Charles,Lastarza ,****ell were to all intents and purposes ****ed after facing Rocky.

[billeau2]

Eisenhower.Moore didnt really do much at heavyweight after losing to Marciano I thinkthe only ranked heavy he beat was Lavorante who was very briefly ranked
I think the first Rocky fight basically ****ed Charles. Charles had 23 more fights losing more than half of them,and those he beat were second raters.

Attrition punchers do that to you.
Layne,Charles,Lastarza ,****ell were to all intents and purposes ****ed after facing Rocky.

I remember hearing that about Layne,etc...

[them_apples]

So, according to you Joe Louis did not know how tall he was because he was punchy.Are Richard Bak and Chris Mead punchy, how about Randy Roberts is he punchy ?I ask because all three are authors who have written biographies of Louis and all three state he was six feet 1 and a half inches tall ,and so does Box rec are the cmpilers of Louis' record punchy as well?
I don't need to do anything, I've blown bloody great holes through every argument you have presented so far.
YOU need to stop digging because you're in a big hole right now ,and its getting deeper with every new post you make!!

ehhh this reply doesn't answer any questions, its a worm hole argument deflects the purpose of my comment. so ill ignore it. re read my post and then respond. I won't respond to posts that put words in my mouth that I never said.

According to me I never said that so don't post this.

My point was old fighters aren't always right, and are frequently wrong actually. Same with trainers. Dundee said Ali was 6 ft 4, Frazier said Listons reach was 95. 2 points explaining what I mean, which I know you understood.

Once again, just watch a damn video - why is that so hard. Louis is REFFING a fight with a man listed at 6 ft 200+ lbs and he is considerably taller. This isn't a picture it's a dude in the ring at the same time, moving around at all angles. He looks about 3-4 inches taller, but I'd be happy with 2.

[them_apples]

Tua had pretty fast hands ,his Achilles Heel was slow feet.Frazier was quick into range, George Benton was brought in by Futch to give Joe a right hand and he developed a pretty effective uppercut with it, but his power punch was always his hook. How effective Tua was is beside the point he was a pressure fighter which Them Apples initially denied.

You missed the point on purpose, but luckily other posters answered the question for me.

Tua is short, HE HAS to come forward by default. what is he? a boxer / mover?

You know that wasn't my point so don't post things like this. Your not ******. let's actually try and keep arguments logical. i'll step down when I see fit.


Tua walks forward because he has to, thats where it ends. He doesn't know how to fight inside or break someone down like a real schooled pressure fighter does. A pressure fighter constantly seeks to make someone miss and tire them out with body shots. I've seen Tua follow Lewis around the ring often in a traditional boxers stance and just looking to land one big one. There was no schooling there on how to actually fight a big man. No schooing of a pressure fighter what soever, he fights like a boxer puncher whos short and just tries to get in range.

And for the record Joshua has already been destroyed so theres no going back now, if he wins its not because he's big. Usyk looks like he's on PEDS now for sure, heavy water retention.

I actually CANT STAND when posters respond with a post that puts words in my mouth, either through forceful ignorance because you have no real answer, or just a way to deflect what I said. Then I end up trying to explain to you something i never said, another posts picks up off where we left off and the entire thread is now hijacked.