How would Joe Louis and Rocky Marciano fare against modern Heavies?

[Ivich]

Yeah, Marciano would turn it up and make the fight ugly. Thats one scenario. ONE scenario, remember that. It would look nothing like Tua vs Lewis, Tua really isn't a pressure fighter - he's just short. rocky has headmovement and the crouch.

Once again though, this is ONE scenario, out of many. I could see him falling short as well. Be clear I said this is ONE scenario. lol. Heart goes a long way, i wouldn't be surprised if rocky is going ape **** trying to get inside in the latter rounds. I also could see Lewis struggling to actually land on a man 5 ft 10 in the crouch.

Just watched Tua vs Lewis for a good size comparison. I'd give Rocky a good chance for sure. He's a better and more determined fighter than Tua. For the weight he's giving up he makes up in stamina, conditioning and even power. (all of rockys punches were hard, Tua had to land the perfect shot).

Tua wasnt a pressure fighter? Ever see him retreat? Tua had one of the best chins ever certainly better than Rocky's ,after sampling a couple of Lennox's righthanders he opted for survival,[Tua ko'd men with both hands he wasn't just a left hooker.] .Marciano would not make that decision and he wouldn't survive. If Old Archie and Old Jersey Joe could drop him while he was still fresh Lewis would demolish him! PS Tua holds the joint record for heavyweight punch stats with Ike.
At range Lewis picks Marciano off with his 84 inch jab and colossal right hand ,inside he uppercuts the life out of the tiny Rocky and renders him harmless with his size and weight .
Marciano never faced a man with the combined size and power of Lewis.whereas Lewis stopped short guys that committed themselves to winning.Lewis faced loads of top end heavyweight punchers Marciano did not.
Plenty of fighters had great heart Gatti,Basilio.Ward,etc but it cannot compensate for a glaring discrepancy in size ,power,and class.

[Ivich]

Because the lighter you are the easier everything is.

putting on weight is probably the biggest farce in boxing and has 0 proof of it serving any benefit whatsoever. You see fighters occasionally come out on fire after moving up but forget that this is likely because of PEDs, a nice big surge of testosterone in a fighter whos levels start dropping after 30.

If you put on weight, it's just weight, that's all it is. There might even be evidence that fat would serve someone better in boxing that extra muscle (bolt on muscle). Extra muscle on a frame means worse technique (muscle bound in regards to frame) Fatigue (more blood pumping) and better punch resistance only if you see the punch coming (you can tense up). If you don't see it, it's lights out either way, the chin doesn't improve.

Muscles built up don't look the same as natural muscles once the skin comes off. It's a small bone with a big muscle built over top, and it doesn't translate to any type of athletic performance. It never has. Holyfield looked better lighter, Norton looked better lighter - even Pacquiao looked his best below 130, his competition just went down as he went up.

You cut weight because weight is just going to make things harder. The only times a fighter was encouraged to put on weight was jumping up to heavyweight and the idea of eating a full meal and feeling as best as possible, with no cutting in camp whatsoever.

Marciano started his career at 192, and with probably the most intense road work routine of all time (literally, he's hardly built like a runner) 10-12 miles up and down hills every day, Marciano was seeking to be the "hardest man to kill" with immense stamina and reoperation powers. We saw this in the ring. At 188 lbs, nobody was able to match Marciano's stamina, and his late round rallies were the GOAT.

Rocky didnt run 10/12 miles a day that's a fallacy. Rocky's stamina ? Shouldnt it be superior to men 37.38.and 39 and a shop worn 33 yrs old nearly100 fights Charles? And wouldn't you expect it to be better than flabby bellied Rex Layne's?

[Ivich]

Buddy dropped him, but Mcall and Rahman knocked Lewis out. Both are shorter than Louis or at least similar in size. Louis has the loss to Schmeling, and they both avenged their losses. Difference being schmeling was better than a dude like Rahman who is a C class heavyweight

No, Rahman is six feet2 and a half inches tall.
McCall six feet 2 inches tall.
Louis was six feet one and a half. and was ko'd by 2 cruisers.


The punch that Rahman kod Lewis with would have laid out Schmeling for a week!

[Dr. Z]

The boxers Marciano and Louis struggled with were faster, smaller and technically superior to Lewis and Vitali (Wlad isnt that skillful by any margin).

Lewis and Vitali are skillful for big men, but not in the big picture. Lewis was flat footed, especially as he put on weight. This is why he got koed. Lewis had a good jab and nice combinations for a man of his size. Ezzard Charles was better in every single department than Lewis, including the jab - he’s simply just a lot smaller.

so these are completely different fights.

if Rocky Faces Lewis, Lewis has to punch down at a man who’s 5 ft 10 and also squatting. Rocky has to close the distance someone. When he does, he can probably hit Lewis easily inside. Lewis is tall and lanky with a big body. The task at hand is Rocky getting inside. Lewis wouldn’t be landing at will though, it would be an awkward fight for him as well. Rocky doesn’t fight like Tua.

if Lewis fights Louis, well theres plenty of Footage of Louis completely dismantling men as big as Lewis and Vitali.

just my personal opinion, but once fighters start getting too big I believe they start regressing in some categories. You lose agility, stamina and explosive capability. Just because we got big men going at it today doesn’t mean this isn’t true. They still suck, just there aren’t any good smaller men. Not even at 175 or cruiser. Usyk is the best we get and yeah, he’s a champ already go figure - but even Usyk in my book is nothing special outside of a good fighter.

They are in the picture and cruiser weighs don't spar with heavyweights today in general. Louis and Marciano had less footwork the heavies like Lewis and Vital K in general and my point in the jab is significant. Both guys had trouble in their day with the punch and would have serious problems with their much longer and harder jabs, not to mention their right hands, which are harder. Take it from me, or ask the fighters or people in boxing. They would be up against it, only have a puncher's chance. Lewis and Vitali K are unlike any old timer. They we naturally athletic, faster handed, skilled boxers in caparison to Willard, Buddy Bear, Primo Carnera, and Abe Simon. Just admit that to yourself and you will feel better or deny it, and you well to put it kindly don't know boxing. I'm not saying you don't boxing. Louis and Marciano would have a tougher time getting into range with the slow feet and might not get there without eating serious leather. How much could they take? They didn't get hit that often form the skills big men who didn't earn distinction as amateurs. They pretty much started raw. On the chance they get close, a clinch form a bigger stronger man would most nullify them. It may suck form your point of view but sorry, that the way the game is.

It doesn't mean that Joe and Rocky were not great in there era, they were. Neither Joe nor Rocky is comparable to Usyk. The 6'3" 78" reach man is about 230 pounds, a southpaw, and a very good mover, for a heavyweight. The skills are better in the lower weights if boxing in general. You don't see welterweights with Heavyweights these days.

[them_apples]

Tua wasnt a pressure fighter? Ever see him retreat? Tua had one of the best chins ever certainly better than Rocky's ,after sampling a couple of Lennox's righthanders he opted for survival,[Tua ko'd men with both hands he wasn't just a left hooker.] .Marciano would not make that decision and he wouldn't survive. If Old Archie and Old Jersey Joe could drop him while he was still fresh Lewis would demolish him! PS Tua holds the joint record for heavyweight punch stats with Ike.
At range Lewis picks Marciano off with his 84 inch jab and colossal right hand ,inside he uppercuts the life out of the tiny Rocky and renders him harmless with his size and weight .
Marciano never faced a man with the combined size and power of Lewis.whereas Lewis stopped short guys that committed themselves to winning.Lewis faced loads of top end heavyweight punchers Marciano did not.
Plenty of fighters had great heart Gatti,Basilio.Ward,etc but it cannot compensate for a glaring discrepancy in size ,power,and class.

Tua was no pressure fighter in the sense of being a skillful one. He pot shots and walks forward. Carries too much weight and doesn't trust his gas tank. A pressure fighter is like Armstrong, Frazier and Marciano. Their style was relentless pressure. It takes less stamina to go forward than backwards, they would be resting in the pocket (legs) and forcing their opponents to work much harder than them hence "pressure fighter".

[them_apples]

No, Rahman is six feet2 and a half inches tall.
McCall six feet 2 inches tall.
Louis was six feet one and a half. and was ko'd by 2 cruisers.


The punch that Rahman kod Lewis with would have laid out Schmeling for a week!

explain to me why Louis, when reffing the Frazier vs quarry fight - seems to be so big compared to a man he's apparently only 1 inch taller than? Why does he seem so big when standing next to Ali and even Foreman? Because he's a heavyweight thats why, who never ate cheeseburgers and did steroids.

since photos matter

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Just a cruiserweight lol

Louis is reffing the 6 ft Quarry and 5 ft 11 Frazier.

that one inch must mean 3

[them_apples]

Rocky didnt run 10/12 miles a day that's a fallacy. Rocky's stamina ? Shouldnt it be superior to men 37.38.and 39 and a shop worn 33 yrs old nearly100 fights Charles? And wouldn't you expect it to be better than flabby bellied Rex Layne's?

well thats what it says in his book, and a few other sources for that matter. Someone needs to count the amount if blows he was throwing in some of those late round rallies, you wrote him off almost purposefully if you can't appreciate that. You also seem to write of Charles. Charles went from a winning fighter to a losing fighter.

[Anthony342]

They'd do well. Hence the term all-time great.

[Ivich]

Tua was no pressure fighter in the sense of being a skillful one. He pot shots and walks forward. Carries too much weight and doesn't trust his gas tank. A pressure fighter is like Armstrong, Frazier and Marciano. Their style was relentless pressure. It takes less stamina to go forward than backwards, they would be resting in the pocket (legs) and forcing their opponents to work much harder than them hence "pressure fighter".

Now you are qualifying your statement. Tua was a pressure fighter end of.

[Ivich]

well thats what it says in his book, and a few other sources for that matter. Someone needs to count the amount if blows he was throwing in some of those late round rallies, you wrote him off almost purposefully if you can't appreciate that. You also seem to write of Charles. Charles went from a winning fighter to a losing fighter.

I have Stanton's and Skehan's books on Rocky,which one says he ran 10/ 15 miles daily?Or is there another bio I am unaware of?Are you saying Charles was prime when he fought Rocky because the contemporary press did not agree in fact they expected Rocky to ko him rather easily!
Q. Had Charles lost 2 of his last 4 fights?
Q.Was one of them to a177lbs Light heavyweight?
Q.Were the 2 he had won, over Coley Wallace who never fulfilled expectations,and the chinny180lbs Satterfield?