Joe Frazier vs Prime Evander Holyfield

[Willow The Wisp]

Nobody ,but I figured you secretly wanted to know!

..........I did.

[Willie Pep 229]

The Holyfield that fought Tyson was so strong (for whatever reason) that I suspect he would have pushed (bully) Frazier around. I don't believe Frazier had the punch to put Holyfield down; Holyfield would have battered, and butted, Frazier into submission.

Holyfield by late TKO

[The D3vil]

Qawi had a total of 29 fights under his belt when he fought 11 fight Holyfield.He had fought 204 rds when he faced Holyfield
Marciano had 49 fights.
Holyfield was not prime for Qawi
Ali had lost nearly 4 years of his prime.He had fought381 rds when he faced Foreman
It's not the age, it's the mileage on a fighter.
You greatly overstated your case.

So, if a guy starts fighting at 45, I guess he's a fresh fighter because he has ZERO fights, right?

Genius, age matters, it always has and it always will

And the types of fights that you have make a difference too.

Only 29 fights?

Against Michael Spinks, James Scott, Matthew Saad Muhammad, and Evander Holyfield ANY fighter will show signs of attrition

Qawi was in wars and had a very uptempo high octane style like Shawn Porter that takes a toll.

[Ivich]

So, if a guy starts fighting at 45, I guess he's a fresh fighter because he has ZERO fights, right?

Genius, age matters, it always has and it always will

And the types of fights that you have make a difference too.

Only 29 fights?

Against Michael Spinks, James Scott, Matthew Saad Muhammad, and Evander Holyfield ANY fighter will show signs of attrition

Qawi was in wars and had a very uptempo high octane style like Shawn Porter that takes a toll.

But Qawi didn't start fighting at 45 did he?
He started at the age of 22 and he was33 when he fought Holyfield 11 years and only 29 fights.
Want to compare that to guys like;
Langford
Louis
Dempsey
Moore
Charles
Robinson
And hundreds of others?
I said you overstated your case,I didn't call you names.

[Ascended]

Easy win for the great holy only a crazy idiot says those outdated 70s would beat holy

[The D3vil]

But Qawi didn't start fighting at 45 did he?
He started at the age of 22 and he was33 when he fought Holyfield 11 years and only 29 fights.
Want to compare that to guys like;
Langford
Louis
Dempsey
Moore
Charles
Robinson
And hundreds of others?
I said you overstated your case,I didn't call you names.

I didn't call you any names either, unless you're claiming "genius" is a horrible slur, now.

You just made point point because where were most of those at 33 years old?

Outside of Archie Moore virtually all of them were past their primes, which was my point

Louis was getting outboxed badly by Walcott
Langford was losing to Harry Wills 3x
Dempsey was retired
Charles was done
Robinson was losing to Tiger Jones.

Like I said, before the past 10-20 years, 33 was past prime for virtually every athlete in the history of sports, not just boxing.

[Ivich]

I didn't call you any names either, unless you're claiming "genius" is a horrible slur, now.

You just made point point because where were most of those at 33 years old?

Outside of Archie Moore virtually all of them were past their primes, which was my point

Louis was getting outboxed badly by Walcott
Langford was losing to Harry Wills 3x
Dempsey was retired
Charles was done
Robinson was losing to Tiger Jones.

Like I said, before the past 10-20 years, 33 was past prime for virtually every athlete in the history of sports, not just boxing.

Moore was past prime for Marciano too,but that not the issue is it. Genius unless merited is a sarcastic slur and we both know it.Ive no wish to fall out with you I've said imo you overstated your case and I'll leave it there.
A 33 years old man with only29 fights on hjs clock is not over the hill.
Thats my position and I stand by it.

[them_apples]

the prime is clearly based on the individual. Just like everyone lives to different ages, everyone is different in size, intelligence and temperament. being young general produces a better physical, unless of course that fighter in the 30's finally has the fund to train full time and take boxing seriously. so primes can happen later.

[them_apples]

Queens read my post wrong but, like quite a few others here, he hasn't the character to admit it.
I think Holyfield beats Joe.
I also think he beats Marciano.

It comes down to styles, Frazier and Marciano Both would both Eat Holyfield up because Holyfield wouldn't do much in the way of staying on the outside. I see Holyfield not only losing but getting stopped.

Holyfield pressuring a ******* Mike Tyson isn't the best indicator of what would happen. Mike never showed any ability to fight inside, he always just stood there and held on. Holyfield and Mike also knew eachother as they were on the same olympic team. With Frazier and Rocky both these guys are tougher dudes than Mike ever was, they aren't going to fold in half from a bit of pressure. Inside fighting was their specialty.

For the record Frazier never lost an inside fight, ever

[Ivich]

the prime is clearly based on the individual. Just like everyone lives to different ages, everyone is different in size, intelligence and temperament. being young general produces a better physical, unless of course that fighter in the 30's finally has the fund to train full time and take boxing seriously. so primes can happen later.

I think prime performances can happen later,due to better training facilities ,enhanced dedication,financial backing etc ,but there is a subtle difference between that and a boxer being in his physical prime ,imo