Lennox revising history re Vitali rematch

[BKM-]

Will repeated misses cause a rotator cuff tear?

It seems intuitive that it would, but most often there seems to be impact involved.

I can only think of four examples. I saw two different QBs (on TV) hit the ground hard on their shoulders like I did.

Along with my first fall, I reinjured the cuff a year or two later sticking hard jabs into a heavy bag.

P.S. So I should also note that while my first fall didn't hurt until the next day, I felt the second tear occur immediately when I hit the bag.

So my earlier argument that Vitali wouldn't have felt it immediately I now RETRACT.

You jogged my memory and now I remember hurting it a second time (but minor) hitting a bag and feeling it immediately.

Well I'm glad to say I don't know as I lack experience with shoulder injuries. They look and sound like one of the most painful injuries. I've had plenty of other issues though, and it's because of the grappling training I did and not the striking sports like kickboxing or boxing. I've had lingering issues with my hips, a neck injury from a young white belt punk tugging too hard on guillotines, and a bad back but that started from years of being in trades.

Regarding Vitali, I just can't discredit his injury as excuse or even fake knowing how tough he was. The fight against Lewis was becoming absolutely brutal especially for him, it was nothing but battle of wills by the end and I saw zero quit in him.

[Bronson66]

Well I'm glad to say I don't know as I lack experience with shoulder injuries. They look and sound like one of the most painful injuries. I've had plenty of other issues though, and it's because of the grappling training I did and not the striking sports like kickboxing or boxing. I've had lingering issues with my hips, a neck injury from a young white belt punk tugging too hard on guillotines, and a bad back but that started from years of being in trades.

Regarding Vitali, I just can't discredit his injury as excuse or even fake knowing how tough he was. The fight against Lewis was becoming absolutely brutal especially for him, it was nothing but battle of wills by the end and I saw zero quit in him.

I think that after becoming aware of how much adverse publicity his quit against Byrd engendered, he over egged the pudding a bit in the Lewis fight making sure everyone was aware he wanted to continue.
I'm not blaming him for quitting against Byrd , any boxer in a similar position,must make his own decision in such circumstances.

Buddy McGirt went the distance with Whitaker with the same injury,DannyWilliams continued against Mark Potter with a dislocated shoulder,and eventually ko'd Potter .
Sonny Liston,Muhammad Ali,Kevin Finnegan,and Artur Abraham , finished fights in which their jaws were broken.

Every boxer has the right to decide when an injury has become unsupportable and he must retire.

[Bronson66]

Exactly as I figured. We all knew you wouldn't do it because you can't. It was a right hand that said the damage that led to Vits being stopped. You can make up anything you want, the video doesn't lie.

Four separate cuts requiring over 60 stitches.

[Bronson66]

With zero hint of any pain or injury, Vitali was totally dominating and then intentionally threw the fight to Byrd and then didn't care about avenging the loss or redeeming himself.

But then he wanted to continue to fight Lewis for the WBC title despite half his face falling off.

Who benefited the most from the fix? Brother Wladimir became mandatory challenger for the weakest champ in hwt history. It's pretty obvious if one can think for himself and see beneath the surface.

Sonny Liston continued in a fight with a broken jaw,in another with a broken nose,then jacked it in against Ali.

Sam McVey went through hell 3 times with Jack Johnson ,fought for49 rds ,[2 hrs and 24minutes']against Jeannette, suffering multiple knockdowns, yet after receiving what he claimed was a low blow against Langford refused to continue after 11 rds.

Human beings are not always as predictable and constant as you seem to think they are. eg Roberto Duran.

[Bennyleonard99]

Sonny Liston continued in a fight with a broken jaw,in another with a broken nose,then jacked it in against Ali.

Sam McVey went through hell 3 times with Jack Johnson ,fought for49 rds ,[2 hrs and 24minutes']against Jeannette, suffering multiple knockdowns, yet after receiving what he claimed was a low blow against Langford refused to continue after 11 rds.

Human beings are not always as predictable and constant as you seem to think they are. eg Roberto Duran.

Liston threw BOTH fights to Ali... Cant comment on the Johnson era, need much more into and details from witnesses...

When I saw the fight I believed what I saw. But decades later being able to think freely instead of believing everything at face value, I believe this fight was not on the level and Vitali tanked it for the mafia and to help set up his weaker brother to win the title from a very beatable weak punching beltholder.

[Willie Pep 229]

Four separate cuts requiring over 60 stitches.

You got to watch the stich count when it's on the face.

I busted open my forehead when I was 16. (I refuse to say how, it smacks of being on the Darwin list.)

I could tell you that it took 41 stitches to close the cut, because it did. 15 inside, 26 outside. I remember the count well.

But I could also tell you that it was only an inch and a half long (but deep). Because it was.

When they stich faces they use very small stitches to avoid scars. My stitches were smaller and tighter than on a baseball.

On the other hand I have a one inch scar on my arm and it was closed with only eight stitches.

So IMHO 60 stitches really doesn't say how much damage was done.

[JAB5239]

Klitschko was outlanding Lewis by 50%.

This is another fabrication that isn't true. Klitschko landed more punches, he also threw more punches, but not by 50%. Lennox also landed at a higher percentage and landed the more effective punches.

[QueensburyRules]

Byrd did back Vits up on plenty of occasions in their fight, and Vit only landed 8 more punches in the entire fight. I do agree about the psychological effect. Not because he was afraid of getting hurt again, but because he knew he was going to look bad no matter what. I think that really did a number on his ego, especially with the fans cheering for Byrd in his adopted home country. Against Lewis even though he lost he looked good. He could get to Lennox. Not as much against Byrd.

- - U plugged up buttocks ain't backing up anyone.

Byrd reprised a cat set on fire running up a telephone pole.

Vit dominated that always triggers sissy Americans.

Ruben M Garcia 89-82 Joachim Jacobsen 88-83 Melvina Lathan 88-83

[Bronson66]

you got to watch the stich count when it's on the face.

I busted open my forehead when i was 16. (i refuse to say how, it smacks of being on the darwin list.)

i could tell you that it took 41 stitches to close the cut, because it did. 15 inside, 26 outside. I remember the count well.

But i could also tell you that it was only an inch and a half long (but deep). Because it was.

When they stich faces they use very small stitches to avoid scars. My stitches were smaller and tighter than on a baseball.

On the other hand i have a one inch scar on my arm and it was closed with only eight stitches.

So imho 60 stitches really doesn't say how much damage was done.

the photos do!

[Bronson66]

Liston threw BOTH fights to Ali... Cant comment on the Johnson era, need much more into and details from witnesses...

When I saw the fight I believed what I saw. But decades later being able to think freely instead of believing everything at face value, I believe this fight was not on the level and Vitali tanked it for the mafia and to help set up his weaker brother to win the title from a very beatable weak punching beltholder.

You also believe a champion can't defend his title against an unranked challenger though I gave you multiple examples of them doing just that to which you did not reply.
So what is your opinion worth?


Here are some examples of Heavyweight champions defending against unranked challengers,

Joe Louis versus;

Thomas
Roper
McCoy
Musto
Dorazio

Patterson versus;
Rademacher


Frazier versus;
Stander
Daniels

Ali versus;
Dunn
Williams
Cooper

Holmes versus;
Ledoux
Frank
Rodriguez