Why I've come to respect Rocky Marciano so much (and it's not about 49-0).

[them_apples]

OP is (french, native and chinese) no my admiration of Marciano has nothing to do with his Mediterranean skin

[QueensburyRules]

One fact remains though:

blacks have never dominated boxing even in eras without racial bias.

fighting is an art nothing more nothing less. It starts in the mind

noobs think itâÃÂÃÂs athleticism

skin doesnt matter and we have plenty of proof

- - Some boxers are very athletic, others not so much like TwoTonToney.

If you totaled all the big sports, they would include boxing as all being part of the Athletic World.

[Mr Mitts]

As for racial hierarchy in sports, fast twitch fibers are the rule of the day. That is what people want, because that is pretty to watch and what normal fans think of as athleticism--grace under pressure. A result is that guys like Shakur Stevenson and Tank Davis are elevated to P4P status and eyed nearly as ATGs far, far too early. Those guys get that kind of break because they happen to have more fast twitch fibers, look exciting and own several spectacular KOs over questionable opposition. Fans were geared up to elevate Jermall Charlo prematurely before nature stepped in.

Back to poor Marciano, who probably didn't have a fast twitch fiber to his name.

* * * * *

It is worse than disrespectful to exaggerate a man's game as if he needs it to retain his position. Rock did what he did. It is on record. He does not need the disrespect of exaggeration to be great. He has already accomplished it by himself.

Under all the changes that have come, and those still to come, a place is cleared for Marciano. The future makes the simple shift, and Rock is now considered the possible GOAT at the old cruiser weight limit of 190 pounds.

[Bronson66]

One fact remains though:

blacks have never dominated boxing even in eras without racial bias.

fighting is an art nothing more nothing less. It starts in the mind

noobs think itâÃÂÃÂs athleticism

skin doesnt matter and we have plenty of proof

Are you familiar with the phrase ."as the heavyweights go ,so goes boxing?"
Well the 60's, 70's,and 80's heavyweight division was dominated by blacks.

[QueensburyRules]

I have not seen members here posting that opinion.

Many???? Which posters here have made this clam? This is completely made up.



In all honesty, this is nothing more than you continuing to cry all around the board that some posters realize Dempsey was complicit in ducking Wills. You made a colorline thread trying to shift blame, and posts like this are just another manifestation of that. And it's so plain to see.

- - Neither Dempsey or Rocky drew the color line and thems the facts Jackson. Used to be Rocky retired to avoid Liston floated by the usual lowbrows who heavily penetrate boxing in all aspects. Facts were Liston was avenging his loss to little Monte Marshall in 1955 when Rocky had his last fight vs Archie and wasn't even rated by Ring until 1958 long after Rocky retired.

[Mr Mitts]

Quite rarely is a paleface able to move around the ring like a flashy black. Johnny Tapia? Others?

[Bronson66]

- - Neither Dempsey or Rocky drew the color line and thems the facts Jackson. Used to be Rocky retired to avoid Liston floated by the usual lowbrows who heavily penetrate boxing in all aspects. Facts were Liston was avenging his loss to little Monte Marshall in 1955 when Rocky had his last fight vs Archie and wasn't even rated by Ring until 1958 long after Rocky retired.

Dempsey is my favourite fighter,but he must take his share of the blame for the Wills fight not happening.
ps It's Marty

[them_apples]

Is the argument here that no race has ever dominated boxing.... or that boxing has always been dominated by non Black boxers...?

that no race has actually dominated boxing. There have been good fighters of many races, because it starts in the heart and mind.

noobs think its athleticism cause thats all they see

boxing is timing and balance..just act jack Blackburn

people think Roy Jones was so athletic but completely ignore the fact that he had an insane work ethic

Even James Toney - sure he didn't run - but he sparred more than everyone and had one of the best coaches in the fight game. it's all surface level observation.

[GhostofDempsey]

In theory his Suzie Q was as important in its hip movement as it was his right hand.

There was more going on in Marciano than just being a mere thug.

But to many he wasn't the right skin color to be a great boxer. There is a racist rule that says white skin can't fight so he must have been given help, while all black fighters were held back.

Anyone claiming whites never faced prejudice or discrimination in boxing needs to wipe the fog from their glasses and find better sources.

Invisible Italian American boxers – To the untrained eye, it seemed that prior to the 1920s there were few noteworthy American boxers of Italian origin—and a limited presence in the decades that followed. But behind many Irish boxing names, there frequently stood an olive-skinned, dark-haired fighter with a hidden identity. More than one thousand Italian professional boxers went by Irish pseudonyms.

Italian immigrants entered boxing at a time when the booming American economy took advantage of Italian muscle to fuel the nation’s growth. However, the ruling elites—the very ones who benefitted from cheap immigrant labor—disparaged Italians, describing them as “biologically incapable” and a “burden on America.”

In addition to enduring these attacks, Italian immigrants came into conflict with the established Irish working class in almost every sphere of society. They fought over municipal and construction jobs. They argued over church matters within the predominantly Irish-controlled Catholic Church. In many instances, Italians were forced to worship in the back, and sometimes even in the basement, of these buildings.

Boxers with Italian names were often met with "virulent hostility" and jeers from crowds, particularly from the predominantly Irish boxing patrons. The National Police Gazette in 1903 observed this hostile reception, noting a clear difference in how Irish and Italian fighters were received.

In 1903, the National Police Gazette captured this, reporting that:

It is amusing to note the way in which the crowd at ringside receives the different nationalities of fighters. There is always a hearty cheer and earnest backing for the Irishman; grins and good-humored tolerance for the German and virulent hostility to the Italian and the Negr0. Put a boy of any race in with an Italian and everybody in the house who is not himself of Italian origin at once begins to root frantically against the son of ancient Rome. It is to the credit of the Italians that they have pushed so far forward against such adverse influences.

Those who refused to change their name frequently complained at the lack of regular fights. Minnesota-native Tony Caponi, who fought between 1902-1917, blamed his lack of booking on his surname, believing that to promoters his real name sounded “more like a music master than a prizefighter.” For a time, Caponi changed his name to TC O’Brien. For the next several decades, a host of other Italian boxers from all across the country followed this trend.

New Jersey-native and pre-World War I heavyweight contender Andrew Chiariglione claimed his Irish moniker on a Utah boxing card. Irritated by the announcers’ inability to pronounce his surname correctly and anxious to get the fight under way, Chiariglione bellowed, “Oh, hell, just call me Jim Flynn.” From then on he became known as “Fireman” Jim Flynn.

The Italians were forced to change their names because the Irish and the Germans were running everything,” he reflected. “They had to change their names otherwise they would have got the worst of it. They got better jobs.

While no area remained untouched, having an Irish moniker was a necessary evil just to get a foothold in the boxing arena. It offered more prominent billing on boxing cards and ensured a wider appeal to audiences expecting to see men with the crowd-pleasing qualities that were synonymous with Irish-American prizefighters.

[QueensburyRules]

That's not true.

- - Useless sound bite quote. As soon as record $$$ hit the Wills fight, Dempsey and even Kearns were all in.

$$$ talks while you know shyte.