Who actually beats Johnson at his absolute prime?

[MalevolentBite]

His era rules or modern rules ?
How many rounds?
How long can they hold with out throwing a punch?
How much grappling is allowed ?
Gloves ? What size and quality ?
Ring size?
Outside in summer or indoors with AC?

[them_apples]

His era rules or modern rules ?
How many rounds?
How long can they hold with out throwing a punch?
How much grappling is allowed ?
Gloves ? What size and quality ?
Ring size?
Outside in summer or indoors with AC?

Old rules, same conditions as johnson. Obv you take away his grappling he wont be able to fight

[GhostofDempsey]

[QUOTE=Bronson66;n32493451]

Post a primary source,[you do know what that is right,] that states Battling Jim was robbed?

Johnson was fighting with a broken arm why,in all your waffle about this fight have you never mentioned that?

Post a primary source that states McVey was competitive against Johnson ,in any of their three fights?

How many rounds were awarded to McVey in each of those three fights?

Have you even ever actually read a round by round report of any of those three fights?

I'm betting the answer is no!

How many times was McVey knocked down?

His face was described as looking like ,,"an overripe tomato," "like a goat had chewed on it," "one side was 3 inches out of plumb."

Johnson finished each fight unmarked.

You just can't admit Johnson gave him three terrible beatings ,something every single newspaper that covered the fights were unanimous in stating.

Your hate blinds you and makes your responses on this subject ludicrous.

Shannon Briggs went the distance with Vitali .Was he competitive?

Jeff Lacy went the distance with Calzaghe.Was he competitive?

Randy Cobb went the distance wth Holmes.Was he competitive

Sam Langford went the distance with Johnson.Was he competitive?

Johnson was prime in1903, with a record of 11-3-6 and weighing178lbs,5 years before he won the title?

Johnson was prime in1903 ,with a record of15-3-6 , 5 years before he won the title?

Johnson was prime in1904 ,with a record of 18-3-6 , 4 years before he won the title?

This is an absurd statement, motivated by sheer, blind hatred.

Like all your statements about Johnson.

Now put up a funny face in response,you might as well ,you've nothing else to offer!

You answered my simple straight forward questions with 20 questions that I’ve already answered.

McVey was MORE a competitive than the no-hopers you try to pass off as worthy opponents, lol. He lasted longer than Kaufman, Ross, Burns, Fitz, Jeffries, Battling Jim, and others. You’re talking out of both sides of your lying mouth.

Keeping dodging my questions and lying, it’s all you’re good at.

[Bronson66]

[QUOTE=GhostofDempsey;n32493850]

You answered my simple straight forward questions with 20 questions that I’ve already answered.

McVey was MORE a competitive than the no-hopers you try to pass off as worthy opponents, lol. He lasted longer than Kaufman, Ross, Burns, Fitz, Jeffries, Battling Jim, and others. You’re talking out of both sides of your lying mouth.

Keeping dodging my questions and lying, it’s all you’re good at.

Qualifying your earlier statement ,because you have no answer to my primary sourced fight reports.Just as you did with your earlier statement that;

"He fought a lot of smaller or washed up opponents so it’s had to say. He also wrestled the bigger ones and tied them up a lot. Gunboat Smith dropped him hard in a sparring session that Johnson’s manager cut short. This was in preparation for the Ketchel fight."

Smith never dropped Johnson and that's according to Smith himself in a taped interview in Pete Heller's book of interviews with boxers."In This Corner."

"I got over to the Seal Rock House,and Johnson put on the gloves,and thats where they begin to think I was something,because I hit Johnson on the chin,and knocked him through the ropes." March 1970 Gunboat Smith's home in Brooklyn NY GunBoat Smith Page 40 "In This Corner"Peter Heller.

Johnson sparred a further 6 rounds with 3 fresh partners after the Smith spar.

Smith also said the knockdown against Ketchel was faked." Ketchel only weighed I think169lbs Johnson weighed 195 on a scale at the Seal Rock House"." It was no contest,Johnson would pick him up by the arms and set him anywhere he wanted,and slap him down.Then they pulled a fake knockdown." Page 40 same book.

Now.where is your rebuttal to the above?
I guess Smith was lying out of both sides of his lying mouth eh? Just like author Adam Pollack was when I posted his ringside reports of Johnson v Mcvey's trio of fights!

.

The list of small washed up men Johnson beat
Klon***e 6ft 200lbsx3
McCormick 6ft 2 1/ 2 175lbs
Scanlan 5 ft 11 1/2 170's lbs
Everett 6 ft1/2 185 /225 lbs
Griffin 6 ft 1 180lbs x3
Kennedy 6ft 2 200lbs+
Russell 6ft 3 ?
Martin 6ft 3 1/2 210lbs
McVey 5 ft 10 203lbs
Ferguson 6 ft 3 1/2 ?x5
Butler 6ft 1/2 ?
McVey 5ft 10 206lbs
Ferguson 6ft 3 1/2 210lbs
McVey 5 ft 10 207lbs
Martin 6ft 3 1/2 210lbs
Jeffords 6ft 4 ?
Munroe 5ft 111/ 2 225lbs +
Ferguson 6 ft 3 1/2x4
Jeannette 5ft 10 1/2 185/190lbs x7
Felix 6ft 3 183lbs
Ross 5 ft 9 214lbs
Kaufman 6ft 1 191lbs
Jeffries 6ft 225lbs
Johnson5ft 10[estimates vary] 222 1/4lbs
Moran 6 ft 1 203lbs
Lodge 6ft 4 227lbs
Lester 6 ft 3 1/2 225lbs
42 fights with the above.
ALL SMALLER? ALL WASHED UP?

It should be pointed out that in his early contests Johnson was himself, a middleweight/supermiddleweight.
Apart from Jeffries , who on the above list were washed up / or appreciably smaller?
You never answered my question.

Or this one , which big heavyweights did he avoid?
You never produced a single verified source that Johnson was lucky to get the decision against Battling Jim,
and you won't .

Im posting verifIed facts,taking the time to do research and then sharing it with the forum.

You are posting BS to support your hate agenda,no facts ,no boxing info,in fact no talk on boxing at all.
That is the difference between us.

Now tell the Forum what I have lied about?

That I was previously Ivich? I have never denied that, it's common knowledge.

What have I ever denied?

Here is you chance to list all the lies and denials I have made here.

Lets have them all on the record, right here on this thread,right now!

I'm not going to call you names on this post,you know what I think of you,that's sufficient.

Now the ball's in your court expose the lies from my lying mouth.

PUT UP OR SHUT UP!

[QueensburyRules]

Depending on how long you like to deem a prime it could start as early as '03 with the Ed Martin fight, though I think late '05 or early '06 is probably more accurate though. Regardless, I think his prime has a clear end date and thats the Fight of the Century. He takes the next two years off after that, and only fights thrice over the next 4-and-a-half years. Prime clearly ends with FotC

- - I'd say it was after letting Root outwork him and letting his temper with a low blow DQ with Jeannette. He goes on something of a tear, but after Burns what with that prearranged ending when JJ team member crawls under the ring to start shouting to STOP the fight, he starts getting very protective for a long time.

You see guys like that at work all the time, guys who barely put in the minimum to make the workplace more difficult than it needs to be.

[Bronson66]

- - I'd say it was after letting Root outwork him and letting his temper with a low blow DQ with Jeannette. He goes on something of a tear, but after Burns what with that prearranged ending when JJ team member crawls under the ring to start shouting to STOP the fight, he starts getting very protective for a long time.

You see guys like that at work all the time, guys who barely put in the minimum to make the workplace more difficult than it needs to be.

Johnson never fought Root, and I very much doubt he ever lost his temper in the ring.
Especially in the 2nd round of a fight he was winning handily.

Johnson won every round against Burns and was enjoying getting his pay back,for all the insults he had to take from Tommy.

What would have been his motive for wanting the fight stopped?

[GhostofDempsey]

[QUOTE=Bronson66;n32493965]

Qualifying your earlier statement ,because you have no answer to my primary sourced fight reports.Just as you did with your earlier statement that;

"He fought a lot of smaller or washed up opponents so it’s had to say. He also wrestled the bigger ones and tied them up a lot. Gunboat Smith dropped him hard in a sparring session that Johnson’s manager cut short. This was in preparation for the Ketchel fight."

Smith never dropped Johnson and that's according to Smith himself in a taped interview in Pete Heller's book of interviews with boxers."In This Corner."

"I got over to the Seal Rock House,and Johnson put on the gloves,and thats where they begin to think I was something,because I hit Johnson on the chin,and knocked him through the ropes." March 1970 Gunboat Smith's home in Brooklyn NY GunBoat Smith Page 40 "In This Corner"Peter Heller.

Johnson sparred a further 6 rounds with 3 fresh partners after the Smith spar.

Smith also said the knockdown against Ketchel was faked." Ketchel only weighed I think169lbs Johnson weighed 195 on a scale at the Seal Rock House"." It was no contest,Johnson would pick him up by the arms and set him anywhere he wanted,and slap him down.Then they pulled a fake knockdown." Page 40 same book.

Now.where is your rebuttal to the above?
I guess Smith was lying out of both sides of his lying mouth eh? Just like author Adam Pollack was when I posted his ringside reports of Johnson v Mcvey's trio of fights!

.

The list of small washed up men Johnson beat
Klon***e 6ft 200lbsx3
McCormick 6ft 2 1/ 2 175lbs
Scanlan 5 ft 11 1/2 170's lbs
Everett 6 ft1/2 185 /225 lbs
Griffin 6 ft 1 180lbs x3
Kennedy 6ft 2 200lbs+
Russell 6ft 3 ?
Martin 6ft 3 1/2 210lbs
McVey 5 ft 10 203lbs
Ferguson 6 ft 3 1/2 ?x5
Butler 6ft 1/2 ?
McVey 5ft 10 206lbs
Ferguson 6ft 3 1/2 210lbs
McVey 5 ft 10 207lbs
Martin 6ft 3 1/2 210lbs
Jeffords 6ft 4 ?
Munroe 5ft 111/ 2 225lbs +
Ferguson 6 ft 3 1/2x4
Jeannette 5ft 10 1/2 185/190lbs x7
Felix 6ft 3 183lbs
Ross 5 ft 9 214lbs
Kaufman 6ft 1 191lbs
Jeffries 6ft 225lbs
Johnson5ft 10[estimates vary] 222 1/4lbs
Moran 6 ft 1 203lbs
Lodge 6ft 4 227lbs
Lester 6 ft 3 1/2 225lbs
42 fights with the above.
ALL SMALLER? ALL WASHED UP?

It should be pointed out that in his early contests Johnson was himself, a middleweight/supermiddleweight.
Apart from Jeffries , who on the above list were washed up / or appreciably smaller?
You never answered my question.

Or this one , which big heavyweights did he avoid?
You never produced a single verified source that Johnson was lucky to get the decision against Battling Jim,
and you won't .

Im posting verifIed facts,taking the time to do research and then sharing it with the forum.

You are posting BS to support your hate agenda,no facts ,no boxing info,in fact no talk on boxing at all.
That is the difference between us.

Now tell the Forum what I have lied about?

That I was previously Ivich? I have never denied that, it's common knowledge.

What have I ever denied?

Here is you chance to list all the lies and denials I have made here.

Lets have them all on the record, right here on this thread,right now!

I'm not going to call you names on this post,you know what I think of you,that's sufficient.

Now the ball's in your court expose the lies from my lying mouth.

PUT UP OR SHUT UP!

Knocking Johnson through the ropes is a knockdown. Even if the ropes hold you up on the way down it’s a knockdown. You are splitting hairs trying to win an argument you can’t win. Smith knocked Johnson down with one big punch.

Again, you listed a long list of never-was opponents and their weights, try listing their records now, lol. I provided records of his opponents he gave title shots too and it was ugly.

I have posted sources from Pollack, Moyle, Ayc@ck, Fried, Kevin Smith, Heller, Sugar, and several other boxing historians whose books I own and read, both you and your little sister dismissed and ignored them.

Why was your Ivich account banned? third time I’m asking. Why was your McVey account banned for several weeks/months on another forum?

[Willow The Wisp]

McVey wasn’t great, he relied heavily on clinching and wrestling too. But a novice McVey going over 20 rounds with prime Johnson was more competitive than Flynn, Burns, Kaufman, Moran, Fitzsimmons….all wins Ivich likes to boast about.

Did you say McVey wasn't great?

[GhostofDempsey]

Did you say McVey wasn't great?

As a skilled boxer, no. He was tough, had stamina, strong, and resilient. Gatti, Shavers, Lyle, Provodnikov, Briscoe, Rios, Morrison, Berto also shared those traits, they were not great fighters either.

[travestyny]

This guy fought to many draws and some victories over the great Sam Langford, whom Dempsey confessed to being scared of, and yet he didn't possess great skill? Known for having an excellent left hook and right hand, understanding positioning, how to cut off the ring, grappling techniques, how to set up a knockout...70 wins 60 KO's....not enough skill..?


Sounds like more hate to fit an agenda to me.