Who actually beats Johnson at his absolute prime?

[travestyny]

Regarding any Frazee deal for New York circa 1922, here is NY Governor saying he has no problem with the bout.
Still waiting for you to show us something QueensburyRules

I couldn't find any reason that Dempsey turned down the Frazee offer. All I saw was that he left to go to Europe without a reply. So still wondering where you got that both agreed and where was any evidence that it was shut down thereafter.

Title: New York Governor Announces Hands Off Attitude Toward Mixed Title Bout
Indianapolis Times June 30, 1922
...

[travestyny]

And here's the NY Governor thereafter (Gov. Al Smith - 1923-1928) saying he has no control over mixed race bouts, it's completely up to the commission, and it is not illegal in NY.
Washington Times Jan. 17, 1923
...

Here was also something interesting I ran into. New Jersey's commission circa 1924 out of nowhere basically saying, "Please pick us for the fight..."
The San Antonio Light April 10, 1924
...

[QueensburyRules]

Langford was not a lean and mean 180 or 190, he was a bloated 180+ while Harry was a chiseled and muscular 220+ fighter. Even reaching as high as 235 in his fights. He had a 7 - 8” height advantage to go with his weight and strength. Ideal for a wrestler who relied on clinching, holding, and leaning his weight on opponents.

- - Not only that, but in Wills' first Langford bout, he was KOed. Then he won a few before Sam put him down again...ouch...

Wills went on a long win streak after that, but given they fought over 20x when Sam was more than half blind, I suspect it was more exhibition for the fans who wanted to see Langford who had plenty of white fans, likely more than his black fans.

[QueensburyRules]

Regarding any Frazee deal for New York circa 1922, here is NY Governor saying he has no problem with the bout.
Still waiting for you to show us something QueensburyRules

I couldn't find any reason that Dempsey turned down the Frazee offer. All I saw was that he left to go to Europe without a reply. So still wondering where you got that both agreed and where was any evidence that it was shut down thereafter.

Title: New York Governor Announces Hands Off Attitude Toward Mixed Title Bout
Indianapolis Times June 30, 1922
...

- - Wispy like you. Told you back when I posted a few articles when Frazee was turned down by Boston and then NY the next year. Buried in the archives now

I recall you admitted you never knew that, but of course for a long time you had me on ignore, and at one point got mad when I didn't reply because I was on Ignor[ant]

Utterly priceless, an idiot without the redemption of being a savant...

[Bronson66]

- - Wispy like you. Told you back when I posted a few articles when Frazee was turned down by Boston and then NY the next year. Buried in the archives now

I recall you admitted you never knew that, but of course for a long time you had me on ignore, and at one point got mad when I didn't reply because I was on Ignor[ant]

Utterly priceless, an idiot without the redemption of being a savant...

"All buried in the archives".

[travestyny]

- - Wispy like you. Told you back when I posted a few articles when Frazee was turned down by Boston and then NY the next year. Buried in the archives now

I recall you admitted you never knew that, but of course for a long time you had me on ignore, and at one point got mad when I didn't reply because I was on Ignor[ant]

Utterly priceless, an idiot without the redemption of being a savant...

I don't know what you are referring to. Boston and Jersey "turned him down" (or rather, just stated the fight wouldn't be welcome there), yes. I don't remember anything about NY turning him down.

From my estimation, the only roadblock in NY was Muldoon. Once he was forced to take a step back, the fight could have been made from what I gather.

Never saw anything about the Frazee offers being accepted, however. He was being a bit mum on the venue but it was always believed to be for New York....next thing I could find Dempsey was off from NY to Europe.

[Willie Pep 229]

- - Wispy like you. Told you back when I posted a few articles when Frazee was turned down by Boston and then NY the next year. Buried in the archives now

I recall you admitted you never knew that, but of course for a long time you had me on ignore, and at one point got mad when I didn't reply because I was on Ignor[ant]

Utterly priceless, an idiot without the redemption of being a savant...

You're correct the above is not a good source

1. The $500K demand was Kearns decision not Dempsey's. Kearns looked bad after the Carpentier fight taking 300K instead of a percentage. The newspaper boys pointed out that Dempsey would have made 476K if Kearns had taken the percentage. Kearns was determined not to have egg on his face twice so he demanded Rickard guarantee 500K or no deal, (which Rickard kept balking at.)

This is why the Greb fight was never realistic with only 100K being guaranteed.

2. For Carpentier there were somewhere between 70K and 74K at Boyles Thirty Acres not 90K.

3. Frazee was blocked by the administrator of the Polo Grounds (NY) and the City of Boston closed Fenway Park to mixed bouts.

The Polo Grounds would become available once James Farley put pressure on the City through his mentor State Seante Minority Leader Jimmy Walker (Tammany Hall, later Mayor) but it was too late by then.

New Jersey flipped-flopped on the issue of mixed bouts, with one branch of government saying no and another saying yes, with neither sure who held authority.

[travestyny]

You're correct the above is not a good source

1. The $500K demand was Kearns decision not Dempsey's. Kearns looked bad after the Carpentier fight taking 300K instead of a percentage. The newspaper boys pointed out that Dempsey would have made 476K if Kearns had taken the percentage. Kearns was determined not to have egg on his face twice so he demanded Rickard guarantee 500K or no deal, (which Rickard kept balking at.)

This is why the Greb fight was never realistic with only 100K being guaranteed.

2. For Carpentier there were somewhere between 70K and 74K at Boyles Thirty Acres not 90K.

3. Frazee was blocked by the administrator of the Polo Grounds (NY) and the City of Boston closed Fenway Park to mixed bouts.

The Polo Grounds would become available once James Farley put pressure on the City through his mentor State Seante Minority Leader Jimmy Walker (Tammany Hall, later Mayor) but it was too late by then.

New Jersey flipped-flopped on the issue of mixed bouts, with one branch of government saying no and another saying yes, with neither sure who held authority.

How very technical you are. The only point I was making was that the governor was saying....nope...not going to blame me for this. But to address some of your concerns...

1. I think you are making that way too technical, buddy. It's only saying that Dempsey's team wanted $500,000. It's not attempting to say who specifically asked for it. They were working for Dempsey.

2. There were 90k seats, but the final count for Carpentier vs. Tunney was actually a bit over 80k

The final count was to be 80,183, a crowd represented by fans of every walk of life.

https://finallyhomejc.com/guidetojer...boxing-history

A hastily assembled outdoor arena was built on a farm in Jersey City, New Jersey, not far from New York City. More than 80,000 fans came to see the fight in person on July 2, 1921, producing boxing’s first million-dollar gate.

https://pophistorydig.com/topics/dem...rpentier-1921/

3. I'm not sure which Frazee offer you are referring to since there was more than one a couple of years apart I think, but the 1923 version was not considering the Polo Grounds I think. The Polo Grounds was actually bidding against Frazee for Dempsey. Here you can see O'Rourke who ran the Polo Ground saying that McKetrick should take the Frazee offer. It was stated a few times that the Frazee venue was to be Yankee Stadium.

Richmond planet. [volume], February 03, 1923
...

What I think is interesting to note here is you have a VIP trying to stage this bout (despite you guys saying the powers that be are saying it can't be done) and saying it is the ONLY fight he is interested in. Clearly, Wills was the fight the public and promoters wanted.


And about Jersey, as far as I can find, they wanted out of this bout until about 1924 when the commission began saying they were down with it.

[travestyny]

Just to show one of the numerous reports that Frazee's offer was for the bout to take place at the new Yankee Stadium.


Evening star. [volume], January 30, 1923

I won't look into the other Frazee offer unless you guys really want me to, but I doubt I'll find much.

[GhostofDempsey]

- - Wispy like you. Told you back when I posted a few articles when Frazee was turned down by Boston and then NY the next year. Buried in the archives now

I recall you admitted you never knew that, but of course for a long time you had me on ignore, and at one point got mad when I didn't reply because I was on Ignor[ant]

Utterly priceless, an idiot without the redemption of being a savant...

Ask him who wrote those anonymous articles…that should be interesting.