The Greatness of Joe Frazier and an example of when the lineal was needed and came to the rescue of boxing

[billeau2]

There is no one "around the lineal title" - if it is illusional as you say then no one can have authority; no one can be corrupt without authority. So no corruption.

Try a different complaint. Corruption makes no sense.

Consensus authority does not have a concentrated power base.... for sure, great point. kafkod is confusing infallaibility with organized, concentrated political corruption.

[kafkod]

He is not saying the same thing. He agrees with you on certain points and PERHAPS as a general sentiment. While his opinion can be reduced to finding the Lineal lacking his reasons and the whole nuance of what he considers regarding how the lineal compares to other titles is not the same at all. As a matter of fact many points I agree with him on.

His arguments can not be reduced to repeating "The Lineal does not exist." I frankly do not even think he believes that to be true, though I would not speak for his conclusions because: they are evolving, they are open to debate with others presently (as are mine) and he can speak for himself. You on the other hand? are reduced to critiquing spelling which really is silly considering the sheer amount of spelling errors I make in an average post.... You found... One?

But you go on believing you have the same opinions... Ok?

If I misunderstand him, he can put me straight, but these are the opinions I'm talking about:

The lineal title exists only as an idea, a Platonic type idealisation of what the world HW title should or would be, in an ideal world.

Historically, it was created and controlled by Ring Magazine, who awarded their championship belt to the man they considered to be the real HW champ, based on the results of recognised sanctioned title fights. (March knows more about the history of The Ring than I do, and according to him, this narrative was created and controlled by Nat Fleischer, who simply invented his own version of history, when it suited him)

The lineal title is a marketing tool. It was invented to sell fights.

March also said this: "There is plenty of truth to Kaf's stance of it being made up bull****."

You don't have to agree with any of this. If you don't agree, fair enough, no need for any hostility.

[kafkod]

There is no one "around the lineal title" - if it is illusional as you say then no one can have authority; no one can be corrupt without authority. So no corruption.

Try a different complaint. Corruption makes no sense.

I was being sarcastic there. But it's absurd to say that no one can be corrupt without authority. Claiming or pretending to have authority when you have none is itself corrupt.

[kafkod]

Consensus authority does not have a concentrated power base.... for sure, great point. kafkod is confusing infallaibility with organized, concentrated political corruption.

I've never said that any authority or organisation is infallible. What I am saying is that the recognised title belts have objective existence, the lineal title does not.

I don't accept that Daniel Dubois is the real HW champion. But he is the IBF world title holder, that is an indisputable fact.

It's not an indisputable fact that Usyk is the lineal title holder, as proven by the fact that Usyk himself disputes it.

[JAB5239]

I've never said that any authority or organisation is infallible. What I am saying is that the recognised title belts have objective existence, the lineal title does not.

I don't accept that Daniel Dubois is the real HW champion. But he is the IBF world title holder, that is an indisputable fact.

It's not an indisputable fact that Usyk is the lineal title holder, as proven by the fact that Usyk himself disputes it.

Usyk doesnt have a say whether he is the lineal champion, it just is. He can claim he only wants belts and that's fine. But by beating Fury he has followed a line of championship succession that neither he nor you can change. And if you want to say Dubois is the IBF world title holder that is fine to. But until he beats Usyk he is really nothing more than a top contender who PAYS for the right to be called a world champion. He didn't earn it.

[kafkod]

Usyk doesnt have a say whether he is the lineal champion, it just is. He can claim he only wants belts and that's fine. But by beating Fury he has followed a line of championship succession that neither he nor you can change. And if you want to say Dubois is the IBF world title holder that is fine to. But until he beats Usyk he is really nothing more than a top contender who PAYS for the right to be called a world champion. He didn't earn it.

Abstract thought is not your forte. You obviously can't your head around the fact that "lineal champion" and "lineal title" are two completely different concepts.

[Willie Pep 229]

I was being sarcastic there. But it's absurd to say that no one can be corrupt without authority. Claiming or pretending to have authority when you have none is itself corrupt.

But who can fake being the lineal champion?

If a fighter claims such a title it would mean nothing to me. I would have alrrady decided if he was or was not all on my own.

Where as if a SB announces this guy is a champion, now that means nothing to me. I have no opinion on the matter nor have say. So I ignore it.

[JAB5239]

Abstract thought is not your forte. You obviously can't your head around the fact that "lineal champion" and "lineal title" are two completely different concepts.

And obviously you can't get your head around Usyk winning the lineal title fight against Fury making him the lineal champion. Gotta be honest here....your arguments are very weak and close minded.

[kafkod]

And obviously you can't get your head around Usyk winning the lineal title fight against Fury making him the lineal champion. Gotta be honest here....your arguments are very weak and close minded.

Usyk vs Fury was a lineal title fight in the confused minds of a couple of old guys at a boxing forum. Meanwhile, in the real world ..... skysports-oleksandr-usyk-undisputed_6558961.jpg

[billeau2]

If I misunderstand him, he can put me straight, but these are the opinions I'm talking about:

The lineal title exists only as an idea, a Platonic type idealisation of what the world HW title should or would be, in an ideal world.

Historically, it was created and controlled by Ring Magazine, who awarded their championship belt to the man they considered to be the real HW champ, based on the results of recognised sanctioned title fights. (March knows more about the history of The Ring than I do, and according to him, this narrative was created and controlled by Nat Fleischer, who simply invented his own version of history, when it suited him)

The lineal title is a marketing tool. It was invented to sell fights.

March also said this: "There is plenty of truth to Kaf's stance of it being made up bull****."

You don't have to agree with any of this. If you don't agree, fair enough, no need for any hostility.

Even Marge acknowledged that what Ring did with the lineal does not determine the lineal. If I take your idea and. Use it think for a moment how that reflects on your idea. Just because I am wrong should not affect your initial idea right? Common sense!

Then you turn around and make the same point Yes that's exactly what Nat did. That's not make it right or correct or it does not make it the lineal.

I never said they was total disagreement. You're making the same points. But you are not saying the same thing.