Usyk, Fury legacies

[JAB5239]

Usyk is carving out a nice little resume at heavyweight in his short time there. Dubois, Joshua 2x and Fury are all top 10 heavyweights at the moment that Usyk holds wins over. Should he beat Fury again and notch a few more names like Parker, Zhang and a few others will talk be warranted of him arguably being a top 10 ATG?

On the flip side, if Fury should win their rematch and notch another top name before calling it quits, should there be talk of him amongst the top 10 ATG's or close to it?

[The D3vil]

I think neither one of them belong near a top 10 ATG list of anything.

To me, to be an ATG, you have to do 1 of 3 things.

Absolutely dominate your competition & obliterate them, if they're inferior like Tyson did in the '80s

Or, you have to beat a cadre of all-time great HOF type fighters like say Ray Leonard did in the '80s

Or, you have to have a long reign with many defenses over many year.

Usyk nor Fury have done either.

They don't have the HOFs available to them to make that happen

Neither of them have obliterated a bunch of people either

Or have had a long reign with a lot of defenses.

So, to me, they're both top 20-30 HWs of all-time.

[Kid Cauliflower]

As it becomes more and more obvious to all just how deficient Wilder's boxing game is and always was, Fury's victories over him lose historic luster. Maybe those victories and draw were not such a big deal after all.

Forget boxing cliches like, "He couldn't pull the trigger," because pulling the trigger was actually the only part of boxing Wilder properly did understand. The man knows almost nothing of even boxing basics, as the likes of Zwang and Parker made extremely clear. Did he even know to keep his left foot outside Zwang's right foot? I could not tell, because the footage I watched was so poor you could only see the fighters above the waist! I doubt this was "official," camera work, but if so it was terribly 3rd rate from the kingdom.

Another thing I noticed about these audiences of the oil shepherds is their lack of passion. They don't care. Even Buffer's "Let's get ready to ruuuumble...!!!" barely raises a murmur from them. The passion for boxing is missing in this so-called New Mecca of boxing!

Now that Wilder has lost confidence, his body realizes it has no idea how to actually set up an attack and this confuses his mind. Before, he just went for it and it always worked out for him, until Fury. Now his mind insists on thinking about it first, which confounds him, because there is actually nothing for him to think about there, no depository of stored boxing strategies, knowledge and techniques to solve problems with. Deontay was an archetypal example of a one-trick-pony. He's done. Victories over him must be viewed anew with a critical eye!

Usyk is the guy doing best out of all of them, and doing it over the best competition too, isn't he? I always root for that mountain of ATGness to be scaled, so he is the one to follow now.

[BKM-]

I think neither one of them belong near a top 10 ATG list of anything.

To me, to be an ATG, you have to do 1 of 3 things.

Absolutely dominate your competition & obliterate them, if they're inferior like Tyson did in the '80s

Or, you have to beat a cadre of all-time great HOF type fighters like say Ray Leonard did in the '80s

Or, you have to have a long reign with many defenses over many year.

Usyk nor Fury have done either.

They don't have the HOFs available to them to make that happen

Neither of them have obliterated a bunch of people either

Or have had a long reign with a lot of defenses.

So, to me, they're both top 20-30 HWs of all-time.

Fury has the big win over HOF'er Wlad Klitschko. After some time, there is a good chance Wilder ends up in the HOF. I know he doesn't have a good resume but he does have the highest KO% and a good amount of title defences.

If he manages to beat Usyk in the rematch, that's potentially 3 HOF names on his resume. Should be more than enough to have ATG claims.

[JAB5239]

I think neither one of them belong near a top 10 ATG list of anything.

To me, to be an ATG, you have to do 1 of 3 things.

Absolutely dominate your competition & obliterate them, if they're inferior like Tyson did in the '80s

Or, you have to beat a cadre of all-time great HOF type fighters like say Ray Leonard did in the '80s

Or, you have to have a long reign with many defenses over many year.

Usyk nor Fury have done either.

They don't have the HOFs available to them to make that happen

Neither of them have obliterated a bunch of people either

Or have had a long reign with a lot of defenses.

So, to me, they're both top 20-30 HWs of all-time.

Good points!

[Bronson66]

Usyk is carving out a nice little resume at heavyweight in his short time there. Dubois, Joshua 2x and Fury are all top 10 heavyweights at the moment that Usyk holds wins over. Should he beat Fury again and notch a few more names like Parker, Zhang and a few others will talk be warranted of him arguably being a top 10 ATG?

On the flip side, if Fury should win their rematch and notch another top name before calling it quits, should there be talk of him amongst the top 10 ATG's or close to it?

I think if Usyk continues to beat ranked heavyweights he will have to be seen as a great heavyweight champ,not necessarily an ATG top ten one though.
Fury hasn't the resume,and even should he beat Usyk in the rematch,I would not call him a great heavyweight.

[JAB5239]

I think if Usyk continues to beat ranked heavyweights he will have to be seen as a great heavyweight champ,not necessarily an ATG top ten one though.
Fury hasn't the resume,and even should he beat Usyk in the rematch,I would not call him a great heavyweight.

At 37 I don't think Usyk had time to put together a long reign as champion fighting the best to crack the top ten, but we'll see what he can do. I agree on Fury. I didn't like him at first, came to be a fan and have lost hope for him because he fights so infrequently.

[GhostofDempsey]

A potential ATG should defeat another great at their best in order to qualify for top ten status. If we are saying that Joshua and Fury are great HWs, then I guess Usyk is on track as a top 10. I just don't think AJ or Fury are great fighters. I do give credit to Usyk for being undisputed in two weight classes, defeating freakishly large opponents as an underdog, and his stellar amateur career. On those accomplishments he is certainly a P4P ATG, I just don't know how high I rank him yet.

Fury is not an ATG, at least not for me. He exposed Wilder, who many of us insisted was highly overrated. His size advantage, reflexes and being in a weak HW era allowed him to rise to the top of the division. If he can defeat Usyk in a rematch and clean out the rest of the top HWs such as Joshua, Parker, Zhang, Dubois, he can go down as a top ten HW. I don't think he'll continue fighting beyond a rematch with Usyk.

[QueensburyRules]

A potential ATG should defeat another great at their best in order to qualify for top ten status. If we are saying that Joshua and Fury are great HWs, then I guess Usyk is on track as a top 10. I just don't think AJ or Fury are great fighters. I do give credit to Usyk for being undisputed in two weight classes, defeating freakishly large opponents as an underdog, and his stellar amateur career. On those accomplishments he is certainly a P4P ATG, I just don't know how high I rank him yet.

Fury is not an ATG, at least not for me. He exposed Wilder, who many of us insisted was highly overrated. His size advantage, reflexes and being in a weak HW era allowed him to rise to the top of the division. If he can defeat Usyk in a rematch and clean out the rest of the top HWs such as Joshua, Parker, Zhang, Dubois, he can go down as a top ten HW. I don't think he'll continue fighting beyond a rematch with Usyk.

- - I'm thinking he'll string Usyk along and then quit the fight to force an emergency replacement. I'd rather see both retire, Usyk with full honors and Blubber in disgrace.

[DeeMoney]

Usyk's legacy will be one of the greatest Cruiserweights ever, who unified the heavyweight division despite a size disadvantage. He is a great fighter, and I hope to see him continue to fight as such, but everything he does from here on out will be icing on the cake.
Sadly, as boxing fans have shown, if he continues to fight past his prime and slips a bit fans will diminish his accomplishments at that time. But in the long run he will be viewed as an ATG Cruiser who did good things at heavy.

Fury's legacy is harder to pin down. He had the in-ring ability to be an ATG, but his out of the ring issues and enigmatic nature sully things a bit. I don't think Wilder's end of career fall will hurt Fury as much as people think; in retrospect, once Wilder calls it quit, people will realize that he wasn't the same fighter post-Fury.
I think if Fury is able to get a fight with, and win over, AJ in the next couple years then it validates him a bit more in the eyes of many. Although I think AJ has rebounded a bit in the last few years while Fury has been all over the map. Five years ago, I'd bet the house on Fury, now its 50/50 for me.