Usyk, Fury legacies

[Dr. Z]

A fighter can only beat those in his era. It has not been a good era for heavyweights. But Usyk has beaten Josuha 2x, Fury, and Dubois.

He is the clear cut #1 guy of his time and has beaten the #2 man ( Joshua ) . The #3 man ( Fury )

Duobis is the # 5-7 man of the times. I think a win over Parker or Hrgovic IF he can do it will give him a near clean sweep of the top 5 from 2020 - 2025.

Considering that he accomplished his signature wins past the age of 35 is special. He is key a top 12 ATG heavyweight.

IMO, he has 1 to 3 fights left. But with the Saudi money, who knows.

[BKM-]

Originally posted by GhostofDempsey View Post
He beat a nearly 40 year old past-prime version of Wlad. I'm not sure how much credit someone deserves for defeating a fading champion. Does Rocky Marciano deserve full credit for defeating a 38 year old Louis? Does Mike Tyson get full credit for beating a 39 year old Larry Holmes? Does Holmes get full credit for beating a 38 year old Ali? I'm not sure how much we should have expected from a 40-year old champion who was fighting his 68th pro fight. That's a lot of wear and tear.




No, actually its not. Wlad had a ton of milage on him ( 65 + pro fights ) ,was 39.75+ year olds, and acted like he was going through the motions in the fight except for the final rounds. He under motivated.

Your acting like Fury beat a much younger, say 34 year old Wlad! Not a chance. Wlad less than 4 months away form his 40th birthday.

Boxing is not a math problem to be solved with numbers. It doesn't work like that. That's a very lazy way of arguing.

You can be past your prime in your 20s, hit your prime in your 30s or still be at your best mid to late 30s. Plenty of examples in boxing history for all of these cases.

The fact of the matter is Wlad was not significantly past his prime based on the context and how he looked leading up to his loss to Fury. I never acted like Fury beat a 34 year old Wlad, your reading comprehension needs a little work. Perhaps a math equation to help you with that as well?

[billeau2]

I think neither one of them belong near a top 10 ATG list of anything.

To me, to be an ATG, you have to do 1 of 3 things.

Absolutely dominate your competition & obliterate them, if they're inferior like Tyson did in the '80s

Or, you have to beat a cadre of all-time great HOF type fighters like say Ray Leonard did in the '80s

Or, you have to have a long reign with many defenses over many year.

Usyk nor Fury have done either.

They don't have the HOFs available to them to make that happen

Neither of them have obliterated a bunch of people either

Or have had a long reign with a lot of defenses.

So, to me, they're both top 20-30 HWs of all-time.

Very strong points! I thought I would give an opinion here on strong soil so to speak. I like "the three things" because it has some objectivity to it. I do not care for opinions that nitpick on particulars... "Well Vlad had bad boogers in his nose when he fought Fury wah wah." No! Baloney! Vlad was good enough to go life and death with Joshua after Fury... Vlad's career was relatively sane, he did not look shot in his later outings. I mean it's on film!

HOF is IMO not even worthy of a discussion. Lets talk real shiat ATG! Usyk has a chance. If he manages to best Fury and beat a few young lions, he may do it. But he has to get by Fury a second time...

The reason Usyk has a chance totally resides in the upcoming heat of players for heavyweight fame. Lets say somehow he beats a guy like Jared, and Jared goes on to greatness... there is his big win.

Fury did dominate Klitchko ... Lets say Fury beats Usyk convincingly in the next two fights (rubber match included)... Its possible He climbs up with a similar scenario as Usyk. Joshua is out, lost too much. Unless he gets another fight with Usyk and beats Fury.

Which brings me to my final point here: History has a way of changing when we think we know the score... Kind of like Queeney's view of the world changes after his third gin ****tail... when everything becomes a conspiracy.

[BKM-]

Very strong points! I thought I would give an opinion here on strong soil so to speak. I like "the three things" because it has some objectivity to it. I do not care for opinions that nitpick on particulars... "Well Vlad had bad boogers in his nose when he fought Fury wah wah." No! Baloney! Vlad was good enough to go life and death with Joshua after Fury... Vlad's career was relatively sane, he did not look shot in his later outings. I mean it's on film!

HOF is IMO not even worthy of a discussion. Lets talk real shiat ATG! Usyk has a chance. If he manages to best Fury and beat a few young lions, he may do it. But he has to get by Fury a second time...

The reason Usyk has a chance totally resides in the upcoming heat of players for heavyweight fame. Lets say somehow he beats a guy like Jared, and Jared goes on to greatness... there is his big win.

Fury did dominate Klitchko ... Lets say Fury beats Usyk convincingly in the next two fights (rubber match included)... Its possible He climbs up with a similar scenario as Usyk. Joshua is out, lost too much. Unless he gets another fight with Usyk and beats Fury.

Which brings me to my final point here: History has a way of changing when we think we know the score... Kind of like Queeney's view of the world changes after his third gin ****tail... when everything becomes a conspiracy.

This era is all over the place. Fury and Usyk really fighting for that spot of best HW of this generation. Meanwhile, surprisingly, Joshua even has people claiming he's the best which is ridiculous.

[QueensburyRules]

So how come Usyk didn't turn pro until 26? Did he just have a crap ton of amateur fights? And if so, why so many amateur fights before turning pro?

- - Apparently you don't understand post Soviet satellite States Ama boxers turning pro difficulties. In the Soviet era, fighters did what they was told and they and their families benefitted. If they didn't, they entered the communal communist grind.

And apparently you don't understand just how dirty pro hvywt boxing is dominated by USA. They don't like no stinkin' Russians knocking out their boys.