Usyk, Fury legacies

[BKM-]

A potential ATG should defeat another great at their best in order to qualify for top ten status. If we are saying that Joshua and Fury are great HWs, then I guess Usyk is on track as a top 10. I just don't think AJ or Fury are great fighters. I do give credit to Usyk for being undisputed in two weight classes, defeating freakishly large opponents as an underdog, and his stellar amateur career. On those accomplishments he is certainly a P4P ATG, I just don't know how high I rank him yet.

Fury is not an ATG, at least not for me. He exposed Wilder, who many of us insisted was highly overrated. His size advantage, reflexes and being in a weak HW era allowed him to rise to the top of the division. If he can defeat Usyk in a rematch and clean out the rest of the top HWs such as Joshua, Parker, Zhang, Dubois, he can go down as a top ten HW. I don't think he'll continue fighting beyond a rematch with Usyk.

Did you forget Fury beat the lineal HW ATG champ in Wlad Klitschko? It really seems like you forgot about that. Honestly, because it was a bigger win than his wins over Wilder and it also contradicts your claim that he took advantage of a weak era where his opponents have a size disadvantage.

I like you as a poster but I find it astonishing that you genuinely forgot about such an important historic HW fight.

[BKM-]

I think if Usyk continues to beat ranked heavyweights he will have to be seen as a great heavyweight champ,not necessarily an ATG top ten one though.
Fury hasn't the resume,and even should he beat Usyk in the rematch,I would not call him a great heavyweight.

Not a great HW with wins over lineal HW ATG champ, 2 wins over another champ, 3 title defences and then becoming a 3-time HW champ by getting revenge against another lineal HW champ? in a decade stretch where he had to make numerous comebacks due to abusing his body and mind mind you.

If that's not a great HW in your mind then the word great has very little meaning in your world.

[GhostofDempsey]

Did you forget Fury beat the lineal HW ATG champ in Wlad Klitschko? It really seems like you forgot about that. Honestly, because it was a bigger win than his wins over Wilder and it also contradicts your claim that he took advantage of a weak era where his opponents have a size disadvantage.

I like you as a poster but I find it astonishing that you genuinely forgot about such an important historic HW fight.

He beat a nearly 40 year old past-prime version of Wlad. I'm not sure how much credit someone deserves for defeating a fading champion. Does Rocky Marciano deserve full credit for defeating a 38 year old Louis? Does Mike Tyson get full credit for beating a 39 year old Larry Holmes? Does Holmes get full credit for beating a 38 year old Ali? I'm not sure how much we should have expected from a 40-year old champion who was fighting his 68th pro fight. That's a lot of wear and tear.

[BKM-]

He beat a nearly 40 year old past-prime version of Wlad. I'm not sure how much credit someone deserves for defeating a fading champion. Does Rocky Marciano deserve full credit for defeating a 38 year old Louis? Does Mike Tyson get full credit for beating a 39 year old Larry Holmes? Does Holmes get full credit for beating a 38 year old Ali? I'm not sure how much we should have expected from a 40-year old champion who was fighting his 68th pro fight. That's a lot of wear and tear.

Very poor comparisons. Louis had been retired for a few years and came back for a paycheck. Larry Holmes exact same situation. Wlad's situation was not even remotely close. Wlad was at a 22 fight win streak and God knows how many title defences which he consistently built up, taking very little damage in those fights. Only one year before the Fury fight he had arguably the most spectacular KO performance of his career and still did not look like he had lost a step in the fight before Fury against Jennings.

If you want to act like Wlad was past his prime because of a math equation that's fine, but please don't act like he was a beaten down, run down ex-champ who got lured out of retirement because he was hurting for money. Please don't do this to yourself, you're better than that.

[The D3vil]

Fury has the big win over HOF'er Wlad Klitschko. After some time, there is a good chance Wilder ends up in the HOF. I know he doesn't have a good resume but he does have the highest KO% and a good amount of title defences.

If he manages to beat Usyk in the rematch, that's potentially 3 HOF names on his resume. Should be more than enough to have ATG claims.

Wilder's not going into the HOF.

It will be many, many years before he does unless he has a miraculous comeback of sorts.

If he retires after Fury III, I think he would've gotten in, but those embarrassing losses to Zhang & Parker have actually set a new standard.

He'll be the 1st guy in history to have 10 defenses of the HW title to not go to in.

I don't think beating 3 HOFs, especially an old Wlad & a limited Wilder is enough to get you as a HOF.

Fury's going into the HOF, no doubt, but to pass guys who fit the other criteria?

He hasn't done enough.

[BKM-]

Wilder's not going into the HOF.

It will be many, many years before he does unless he has a miraculous comeback of sorts.

If he retires after Fury III, I think he would've gotten in, but those embarrassing losses to Zhang & Parker have actually set a new standard.

He'll be the 1st guy in history to have 10 defenses of the HW title to not go to in.

You don't seem to be sure of your own opinion, kinda flip flopping there. Like you said he has 10 title defences as a HW. I also added he has the highest KO % of all time. He was part of this generation's 'Big 3'. This is enough to get a HOF spot. a couple of losses in his late 30s while he relies on a young man's style, is not just going to ruin his whole legacy. Boxing fans are fickle and dramatic, but as time passes they start to get some sense.

I don't think beating 3 HOFs, especially an old Wlad & a limited Wilder is enough to get you as a HOF.

Fury's going into the HOF, no doubt, but to pass guys who fit the other criteria?

He hasn't done enough.

Is he or isn't he? He did enough NO DOUBT you say, but then no he hasn't done enough. What are you saying exactly?

[QueensburyRules]

Did you forget Fury beat the lineal HW ATG champ in Wlad Klitschko? It really seems like you forgot about that. Honestly, because it was a bigger win than his wins over Wilder and it also contradicts your claim that he took advantage of a weak era where his opponents have a size disadvantage.

I like you as a poster but I find it astonishing that you genuinely forgot about such an important historic HW fight.

- - When Blubber should've been on a Drug suspension but for BBB of c being too stoooopid to run a credible org.

Ducked the rematch and went on a 3 year Bender of booze, pies, whores, and illegal drugs procured and ingested publicly...Yeah...

[The D3vil]

You don't seem to be sure of your own opinion, kinda flip flopping there. Like you said he has 10 title defences as a HW. I also added he has the highest KO % of all time. He was part of this generation's 'Big 3'. This is enough to get a HOF spot. a couple of losses in his late 30s while he relies on a young man's style, is not just going to ruin his whole legacy. Boxing fans are fickle and dramatic, but as time passes they start to get some sense.



Is he or isn't he? He did enough NO DOUBT you say, but then no he hasn't done enough. What are you saying exactly?

I mean All-time great for Fury.

Fury's definitely going to the HOF, but he's not an ATG

And I said pretty definitively that I don't think Wilder's getting into the HOF.

I think he'll be the first guy with 10 defenses to not get in.

[Dr. Z]

Originally posted by GhostofDempsey View Post
He beat a nearly 40 year old past-prime version of Wlad. I'm not sure how much credit someone deserves for defeating a fading champion. Does Rocky Marciano deserve full credit for defeating a 38 year old Louis? Does Mike Tyson get full credit for beating a 39 year old Larry Holmes? Does Holmes get full credit for beating a 38 year old Ali? I'm not sure how much we should have expected from a 40-year old champion who was fighting his 68th pro fight. That's a lot of wear and tear.

Very poor comparisons. Louis had been retired for a few years and came back for a paycheck. Larry Holmes exact same situation. Wlad's situation was not even remotely close. Wlad was at a 22 fight win streak and God knows how many title defences which he consistently built up, taking very little damage in those fights. Only one year before the Fury fight he had arguably the most spectacular KO performance of his career and still did not look like he had lost a step in the fight before Fury against Jennings.

If you want to act like Wlad was past his prime because of a math equation that's fine, but please don't act like he was a beaten down, run down ex-champ who got lured out of retirement because he was hurting for money. Please don't do this to yourself, you're better than that.

No, actually its not. Wlad had a ton of milage on him ( 65 + pro fights ) ,was 39.75+ year olds, and acted like he was going through the motions in the fight except for the final rounds. He under motivated.

Your acting like Fury beat a much younger, say 34 year old Wlad! Not a chance. Wlad less than 4 months away form his 40th birthday.

[QueensburyRules]

I mean All-time great for Fury.

Fury's definitely going to the HOF, but he's not an ATG

And I said pretty definitively that I don't think Wilder's getting into the HOF.

I think he'll be the first guy with 10 defenses to not get in.

- - Be first guy since TBE TUE with gobs of TBA defenses to be considered.