What's the real story behind Floyd Patterson and his subjugation to Sonny Liston

[_Rexy_]

Are you trolling? Do you know what a gatekeeper even is? You do not know anything about Liston... You are sprouting garbage and then when called out on it, you post something like the above. When Liston fought Ali he was way past his prime. We are just finding out now how old he really was. And patterson, if you bothered to watch him, was an excellent technical fighter with great speed and counter punching. No, Patterson was not an ATG champ, but he was very very good.

We still have no idea how old Liston was, but the estimate was that he was close to 40 when he faced Ali. Which makes his performance against Wepner insane to me.

[Ivich]

Finisher doesn't mean how many you KO, it means how effective you are to you finish someone off once they are hurt. His finishing abilities against a no name was awful.

Ali's reflexes are cognitive attributes, not anatomical. Liston had only anatomical attributes.

Liston officially then 38 against Clark was probably over 40.
Liston won all 6 completed rounds before the fight was stopped in his favour,in the 7th.
"Sonny Liston stopped Henry Clark Saturday at 2:47 of the 7th round in a nationally televised bout scheduled for ten. The former heavyweight champion picked away at Clark with hard left jabs and short hooks. Liston never backed away and scored repeatedly with counter-punches as Clark missed with wild bolo punches. Liston jarred Clark in the 6th, when Clark was warned for a low blow, and staggered him in the 7th with a left uppercut and a long right. At that point, Clark was dodging, but not fighting back. When referee Frankie Carter stopped the bout, he and judges Jack Downey and Jack Silver each had it 6-0, Liston, under the California scoring system.
" No name ."Clark was ring ranked 9th and WBA ranked no5.
There are two possible explanations for your posts.
1.You are trolling.
2.You don't know what you are talking about.

[billeau2]

Liston officially then 38 against Clark was probably over 40.
Liston won all 6 completed rounds before the fight was stopped in his favour,in the 7th.
"Sonny Liston stopped Henry Clark Saturday at 2:47 of the 7th round in a nationally televised bout scheduled for ten. The former heavyweight champion picked away at Clark with hard left jabs and short hooks. Liston never backed away and scored repeatedly with counter-punches as Clark missed with wild bolo punches. Liston jarred Clark in the 6th, when Clark was warned for a low blow, and staggered him in the 7th with a left uppercut and a long right. At that point, Clark was dodging, but not fighting back. When referee Frankie Carter stopped the bout, he and judges Jack Downey and Jack Silver each had it 6-0, Liston, under the California scoring system.
" No name ."Clark was ring ranked 9th and WBA ranked no5.
There are two possible explanations for your posts.
1.You are trolling.
2.You don't know what you are talking about.

They get worse and worse... It is like "well the seasons are changing, Pumpkin pie, fall leaves, cozy gatherings... and time to take a big shiat on the history section."

Calling Liston a gate keeper lol. And then? using an example where Liston forces a finish to show that If Liston was a real finisher he would have gotten a KO instead of a finish because as the genius himself says "Not a KO artist, a finisher." You cannot make this up, makes Queen B look less dim! That takes some doing!

[mrbig1]

the reason why Ali was the #1 contender is nothing he did. Wins over Jones and Cooper will not do that. the reason Liston by this time has cleaned out the HW division. there was no one left.

[QueensburyRules]

We still have no idea how old Liston was, but the estimate was that he was close to 40 when he faced Ali. Which makes his performance against Wepner insane to me.

- - Boxrec lists 33 when fighting young Clay, presuming he was born after the 1930 census a year later. However the 1940 Census list's Sonny as 11 years old, meaning he was born in 1928-29 and would be 36-37 yrs of age vs Clay.

That jibes with his early 1950 St Louis arrest record where he states he's 22-23 yrs old. Of all the speculation, that is the most likely age rang,36-37 yrs old.

[Willie Pep 229]

How could you even know how Liston, or any fighter would be "normal?" Liston was never a gate keeper, look up what a gate keeper is.

I guess to you...

1. Ali ****** because he would not be so good without his speed and reflexes.
2. Wilder would not be able to KO people with normal length... hes out.
3. Tyson would not be any good at all if not for his foot speed and power. Ditto for Dempsey who would be nothing without his power.

Are you trolling?

Ignoring his other comments -- I don't think it unfair to suggest the Floyd Patterson was a gate-keeper champion.

BUT: That only holds if we call all champions who held the title between two (perceived) greats, gate keepers.

Were Charles-Walcott gate keepers?

How about both Liston and Patterson?

Fitzsimmons? Burns? Braddock? Carnera?

OK I need to stop, too many.

Maybe no HW Champion is ever a gate keeper.

[billeau2]

Ignoring his other comments -- I don't think it unfair to suggest the Floyd Patterson was a gate-keeper champion.

BUT: That only holds if we call all champions who held the title between two (perceived) greats, gate keepers.

Were Charles-Walcott gate keepers?

How about both Liston and Patterson?

Fitzsimmons? Burns? Braddock? Carnera?

OK I need to stop, too many.

Maybe no HW Champion is ever a gate keeper.

I always thought a gate keeper was a fighter that represented the bare minimum in skill that one should be able to beat as an up and commer. I never heard of a champion referred to as a gate keeper... A champion by virtue of such would be the last to qualify as a status quo benchmarker. My understanding is that it makes no sense to call any champion a gate keeper. Gate keepers would be fighters like Dylan Whyte or Yorkies Gamboa... A later Zab Judah would be another one...

[Willie Pep 229]

I always thought a gate keeper was a fighter that represented the bare minimum in skill that one should be able to beat as an up and commer. I never heard of a champion referred to as a gate keeper... A champion by virtue of such would be the last to qualify as a status quo benchmarker. My understanding is that it makes no sense to call any champion a gate keeper. Gate keepers would be fighters like Dylan Whyte or Yorkies Gamboa... A later Zab Judah would be another one...

Most often I have heard the term used politically, usually applied to a US President who followed the flow of his party, took no initiative, and allowed America to flow (or drift) in the direction it chooses. E.g. Silent Calvin Cooldige.

I don't think the term works in boxing.

[billeau2]

Most often I have heard the term used politically, usually applied to a US President who followed the flow of his party, took no initiative, and allowed America to flow (or drift) in the direction it chooses. E.g. Silent Calvin Cooldige.

I don't think the term works in boxing.

?
Gate keeper might have two meanings. It is often used in boxing to describe a fighter who sort of makes sure anyone who gets through them (the gate) is capable. I can definitely tell you that the term has been used in boxing, but I cannot tell you if it refers to the same things, and/or what the origins of the term are.

Here is Wiki: One of my favorite ideas to come out of the internet.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gatekeeper_(boxing)

[billeau2]

Most often I have heard the term used politically, usually applied to a US President who followed the flow of his party, took no initiative, and allowed America to flow (or drift) in the direction it chooses. E.g. Silent Calvin Cooldige.

I don't think the term works in boxing.

I use Wiki to clear these things up because it has such an incredible range. People often mock it, but if you are an intelligent person, and look at most sources for basic information... like the book series "for Dummys" etc, these sources are just too basic. Wiki gives one the opportunity to look at a whole spectrum of information and explore a topic further. It also is an open source, a concept that just warms my ****els! I love the idea that people can create a knowledge thread that is self policing.