What's the real story behind Floyd Patterson and his subjugation to Sonny Liston

[Tanakasensei]

Sonny Liston is complicated. Nothing is simple when rehashing his career.

For whatever it's worth it took the greatest heavyweight in the history of boxing to beat him. If your being intellectually honest ask yourself how many heavyweights in history could have cut the ring down and had a chance vs the version of Ali that Sonny faced? 22 years old, lightening fast and hard to catch.

Add to it the fact that Liston was barely in 3 round shape that night in Miami.

Doug Jones beat him. Ali said he was lucky to get the decision.

Also Cooper koed him if Dundee didn't cheat with smelling salt .

[Tanakasensei]

Well... I have heard a lot of opinions on the thread, and I am open minded... But wrong is wrong and a gate keeper IS NOT a last hurdle to becoming a champ, that would be a contender... I am sorry but that is just not correct. And what does endurance have to do with this designation?

skillful and well-regarded fighter, but one who does not have the popularity or brilliance of a title contender.

Sonny Liston can fight Clay 100 times and he would lose 100. Clay had an iron chin, superior hand speed, ring craftmanship.. Nothing Liston could do.

You can fade in fights without gassing.

[Ivich]

Doug Jones beat him. Ali said he was lucky to get the decision.

Also Cooper koed him if Dundee didn't cheat with smelling salt .

Doug Jones didn't beat him and Ali never said he did.
Ali came out for the next round against Cooper and took him apart.You talk rubbish.

[Tanakasensei]

Doug Jones didn't beat him and Ali never said he did.
Ali came out for the next round against Cooper and took him apart.You talk rubbish.

Next, I’d say would be the Doug Jones fight in 1963.
Jones had just come off a big knock out of Zora Folley. He was smart and hungry. I had put a lot of pressure on myself with predicting and tried to make it come true. The Garden was jammed and Jones was from New York.

All night long the determined Jones kept getting me with a looping right hand. He’d move in relentlessly and lead with the right. He was just throwing me off stride and I was very happy to be awarded a close decision.

[Ivich]

Next, I’d say would be the Doug Jones fight in 1963.
Jones had just come off a big knock out of Zora Folley. He was smart and hungry. I had put a lot of pressure on myself with predicting and tried to make it come true. The Garden was jammed and Jones was from New York.

All night long the determined Jones kept getting me with a looping right hand. He’d move in relentlessly and lead with the right. He was just throwing me off stride and I was very happy to be awarded a close decision.

It was a close fight but Ali won it and by unanimous decision.
Nowhere does Ali say he was LUCKY to get the decision
Which is what you originally said
Here is your post!
"Doug Jones beat him. Ali said he was lucky to get the decision."

LUCKY implies he didn't think he deserved the win.
He said he was HAPPY to get the decision,which is something else entirely!

[Tanakasensei]

It was a close fight but Ali won it and by unanimous decision.
Nowhere does Ali say he was LUCKY to get the decision
Which is what you originally said
Here is your post!
"Doug Jones beat him. Ali said he was lucky to get the decision."

LUCKY implies he didn't think he deserved the win.
He said he was HAPPY to get the decision,which is something else entirely!

Yeah judges are always right lol...


the AP had it: 5-4-1 Jones

the UPI had it: 6-3-1 Clay

the New York Times had it 6–3–1 Clay

the Long Beach Press-Telegram had it: 7-1-2 Clay

the Baltimore Sun had it: 6–3-1 Jones.

[billeau2]

skillful and well-regarded fighter, but one who does not have the popularity or brilliance of a title contender.

Sonny Liston can fight Clay 100 times and he would lose 100. Clay had an iron chin, superior hand speed, ring craftmanship.. Nothing Liston could do.

You can fade in fights without gassing.

Baloney. Liston lost and was shop worn. He still would beat Ali in 100 meetings! Think about your statement and the odds it suggests. Would you put those odds out to make a book as a market maker? Would you say to someone: "For every dollar you bet on Liston you get 100? Even Buster Douglas was like a 30 to 1 underdog against Tyson.

If you want to believe that nonsense so be it.

[billeau2]

Name a great fighter Sonny Liston beat. Name one.


Ali thought he (Ali) was the greatest fighter who ever lived when he beat Liston, but the truth is Liston just wasn't that good.

Whenever he faced someone who had any ring IQ, like Machen, Liston punched air most of the fight. Only winning due to his jab
If Liston had actual talents he would do the same job to Machen as Ingemar Johansson did.. got rid of him in the first round.

Go look at the lineages of heavyweight champions. Many great champs never faced a fellow ATG fighter at prime. Liston's competition was about average all things considered.

[billeau2]

Doug Jones didn't beat him and Ali never said he did.
Ali came out for the next round against Cooper and took him apart.You talk rubbish.

I think Takanashi is by far and wide the most consistent poster in the whole section... Even Queen B is not wrong 100% of the time... i would put him at about 95%. Takanashi, up to this point is batting 100%. You really have to try to be that errr consistent.

[billeau2]

Yeah judges are always right lol...


the AP had it: 5-4-1 Jones

the UPI had it: 6-3-1 Clay

the New York Times had it 6–3–1 Clay

the Long Beach Press-Telegram had it: 7-1-2 Clay

the Baltimore Sun had it: 6–3-1 Jones.

So from Ali's personal statement about winning a close fight, you jump to judges then mention press reviews of the fight.... Okkkayyy.