What's the real story behind Floyd Patterson and his subjugation to Sonny Liston

[Tanakasensei]

This is what I've read:.

Cus felt Sonny Liston was an impossible stylistic match-up for Patterson and Patterson himself did not believe that he would win, even buying things in preparation for losing ( to cover his face).

Now the question is what about Listons style was deemed impossible by Cus? Liston couldn't hurt Eddie Machen (who Ingemar Johansson Koed inside 1 round).

If you moved, Sonny couldn't get to you. He never beat anyone who moved around the ring, unless they ran into him. Sonny had poor athleticism in his right hand

So basically, if you brawled, Sonny Liston shined. Like he did against glass jaw Cleveland Williams . But if he had to get to you, he was NOT a great fighter...he could not get set and land ..anything... His jab could land but that was all.. and against Ali he couldn't even land that consistently.


So anyway, back to Patterson. Why didn't he believe he could win vs Liston?

[Slugfester]

One possible reason: Cus knew Floyd could not present his entire front to Liston, but that is the way he taught him to fight.. The peekaboo has the fault that it presents a full width target without any off center lines in the stance. Bobbing and weaving is supposed to provide this. The problem with that is it still leaves you in range. Not everyone is a Tyson who could perfect the style Cus either invented, pioneered or lifted.

[Tanakasensei]

One possible reason: Cus knew Floyd could not present his entire front to Liston, but that is the way he taught him to fight.. The peekaboo has the fault that it presents a full width target without any off center lines in the stance. Bobbing and weaving is supposed to provide this. The problem with that is it still leaves you in range. Not everyone is a Tyson who could perfect the style Cus either invented, pioneered or lifted.

That's an interesting point about being in the center line. To be fair, Mike Tyson wasn't Aaways doing peek-a Boo when he fought. He Koed Holmes from mid range classically with a one-two.

[Ivich]

This is what I've read:.

Cus felt Sonny Liston was an impossible stylistic match-up for Patterson and Patterson himself did not believe that he would win, even buying things in preparation for losing ( to cover his face).

Now the question is what about Listons style was deemed impossible by Cus? Liston couldn't hurt Eddie Machen (who Ingemar Johansson Koed inside 1 round).

If you moved, Sonny couldn't get to you. He never beat anyone who moved around the ring, unless they ran into him. Sonny had poor athleticism in his right hand

So basically, if you brawled, Sonny Liston shined. Like he did against glass jaw Cleveland Williams . But if he had to get to you, he was NOT a great fighter...he could not get set and land ..anything... His jab could land but that was all.. and against Ali he couldn't even land that consistently.


So anyway, back to Patterson. Why didn't he believe he could win vs Liston?

Machen fought to survive,its hard to stop a man who is just there to stay. I don't believe Williams had a glass jaw.

[Tanakasensei]

Machen fought to survive,its hard to stop a man who is just there to stay. I don't believe Williams had a glass jaw.

Machen was never in any danger.. simply because Liston can't punch moving targets. He wasn't that good.

Williams got koed early by Ali.

[QueensburyRules]

Machen was never in any danger.. simply because Liston can't punch moving targets. He wasn't that good.

Williams got koed early by Ali.

- - Cleve declared Deader than dead on the operating table 2 years before shouldn't have even been fighting.

Floyd an offensive bob/weave style like Dempsey and Tyson, not a mover. Clay ran like a school boy vs Sonny and publicly ready to quit the fight before Liston quit on orders from the Mob. Shoulda been DQed the 2nd farce when he fought with Jersey Joe who had to manhandle him to the neutral corner, missing the count. He almost never respected the neutral corner rule, ie see the Bonvena fight where he was manhandled for 15 rounds before finally a KD where he's ready to pounce as soon as the ref finishes the count instead of waiting for the mandatory glove wipe.

• On November 29, 1964, Williams was shot in the stomach during an altercation with a Texas highway patrolman. The bullet moved across his intestines and lodged against his right hip. That night, he underwent nearly six hours of surgery that involved removal of a small section of intestine. "I died three times on that operating table," Williams said. He underwent four operations over the next seven months for colon damage and an injured right kidney, which was removed in June 1965. Doctors did not take out the bullet, which had broken his right hip joint and caused partial paralysis of some hip muscles. Williams lost almost 60 pounds off his 220-pound frame, but he regained strength by tossing 80-pound hay bales on his manager's cattle ranch. He returned to the ring in February 1966 and won four consecutive fights before facing Ali.

[Ivich]

Machen was never in any danger.. simply because Liston can't punch moving targets. He wasn't that good.

Williams got koed early by Ali.

So, the 39 men Liston stopped either came to him or stood still for him to punch them ? You think the facsimile of Williams that Ali stopped was the same as the guy Liston fought?

[Tanakasensei]

So, the 39 men Liston stopped either came to him or stood still for him to punch them ?

Or ran into him like the One with the brutal right hand.

[Ivich]

Or ran into him like the One with the brutal right hand.

Yeah sure.lol

[max baer]

- - Cleve declared Deader than dead on the operating table 2 years before shouldn't have even been fighting.

Floyd an offensive bob/weave style like Dempsey and Tyson, not a mover. Clay ran like a school boy vs Sonny and publicly ready to quit the fight before Liston quit on orders from the Mob. Shoulda been DQed the 2nd farce when he fought with Jersey Joe who had to manhandle him to the neutral corner, missing the count. He almost never respected the neutral corner rule, ie see the Bonvena fight where he was manhandled for 15 rounds before finally a KD where he's ready to pounce as soon as the ref finishes the count instead of waiting for the mandatory glove wipe.

• On November 29, 1964, Williams was shot in the stomach during an altercation with a Texas highway patrolman. The bullet moved across his intestines and lodged against his right hip. That night, he underwent nearly six hours of surgery that involved removal of a small section of intestine. "I died three times on that operating table," Williams said. He underwent four operations over the next seven months for colon damage and an injured right kidney, which was removed in June 1965. Doctors did not take out the bullet, which had broken his right hip joint and caused partial paralysis of some hip muscles. Williams lost almost 60 pounds off his 220-pound frame, but he regained strength by tossing 80-pound hay bales on his manager's cattle ranch. He returned to the ring in February 1966 and won four consecutive fights before facing Ali.

queensbury i noticed something a common thread with all your posts. you like klitscko, you like calazage, you like marciano, you like cooney you like bugner etc etc
you hate ali, you hate lewis, you hate mayweather...etc etc
- i am not gonna accuse or link up your views let's just say "they are coming over here taking our jobs and selling drugs!!!!"
only kidding!!