If Dempsey Had Defended Against Wills,Godfrey & Norfolk?

[Willie Pep 229]

It seems from the above article that Dempsey saw the necessary training period as relevant to the skill of his opponent.

One post earlier, mentions that Dempsey only needed to train 5 weeks for Firpo.

But above we hear him saying the strong Brennan doesn't phase him much, but the quick Greb does, and he needs more time to get ready.

The Brennan and Firpo connection makes sense. Both strong and at least in Dempsey's eyes not much of a threat.

Sounds like a complement to Greb.

But then it makes you wonder, if Dempsey insisted he needed more time for Wills than Firpo, isn't that a complement to Wills as well?

Or do we called Dempsey a 'ducker' because he respected Wills and demanded more time.

When he, Dempsey, says it about Greb, we're suspose see it as making Greb a worthy opponent. OK, that's a fair argument.

But when he says it about Wills we're suspose to see him as a ducker.

The argument needs consistency.

[travestyny]

It seems from the above article that Dempsey saw the necessary training period as relevant to the skill of his opponent.

One post earlier, mentions that Dempsey only needed to train 5 weeks for Firpo.

But above we hear him saying the strong Brennan doesn't phase him much, but the quick Greb does, and he needs more time to get ready.

The Brennan and Firpo connection makes sense. Both strong and at least in Dempsey's eyes not much of a threat.

Sounds like a complement to Greb.

But then it makes you wonder, if Dempsey insisted he needed more time for Wills than Firpo, isn't that a complement to Wills as well?

Or do we called Dempsey a 'ducker' because he respected Wills and demanded more time.

When he, Dempsey, says it about Greb, we're suspose see it as making Greb a worthy opponent. OK, that's a fair argument.

But when he says it about Wills we're suspose to see him as a ducker.

The argument needs consistency.

They offered Dempsey more time to agree to Montreal. He still ducked him. He didn't want the fight.


But of course it was a compliment to Wills. He heaped lots of praise on Wills. Said he could "lick the best of them."


Also, you are operating under a false pretense. He never said he needed more time for Wills than Firpo. You're assuming that based on 5 weeks being enough time to prepare for Firpo but Dempsey wanting no part of Wills with 5 weeks or longer to prepare. It could also just be what it most likely was...simply a duck.

I certainly didn't say Dempsey feeling that way about Greb made Greb a worthy opponent. The only thing that article tells me is that Dempsey didn't want Greb. Much like he didn't want Wills. It is what it is

[GhostofDempsey]

It seems from the above article that Dempsey saw the necessary training period as relevant to the skill of his opponent.

One post earlier, mentions that Dempsey only needed to train 5 weeks for Firpo.

But above we hear him saying the strong Brennan doesn't phase him much, but the quick Greb does, and he needs more time to get ready.

The Brennan and Firpo connection makes sense. Both strong and at least in Dempsey's eyes not much of a threat.

Sounds like a complement to Greb.

But then it makes you wonder, if Dempsey insisted he needed more time for Wills than Firpo, isn't that a complement to Wills as well?

Or do we called Dempsey a 'ducker' because he respected Wills and demanded more time.

When he, Dempsey, says it about Greb, we're suspose see it as making Greb a worthy opponent. OK, that's a fair argument.

But when he says it about Wills we're suspose to see him as a ducker.

The argument needs consistency.

The length of his training camps may also have had something to do with how often he fought exhibitions and how active he was between fights. Dempsey fought a lot of exhibitions between fights. If he went several months without even an exhibition he would need a longer camp to get his reflexes back and get his stamina back to top form. He would likely have to train differently for each opponent as well. Firpo wasn’t a fast-footed opponent. There is also money to be made during training camp. Gibbons made several thousand dollars selling tickets to his training and sparring for Dempsey. Having a short camp for Wills is money left on the table.

Then of course there is the obvious, which is, Dempsey is the champ, the A-side, and he is the shot-caller, not Wills or promoters/investors who allegedly sent an offer for Montreal. If they really wanted to fund that fight they’d be flexible on the date, no other event would have been bigger than a Dempsey fight.

[travestyny]

The length of his training camps may also have had something to do with how often he fought exhibitions and how active he was between fights. Dempsey fought a lot of exhibitions between fights. If he went several months without even an exhibition he would need a longer camp to get his reflexes back and get his stamina back to top form. He would likely have to train differently for each opponent as well. Firpo wasn’t a fast-footed opponent. There is also money to be made during training camp. Gibbons made several thousand dollars selling tickets to his training and sparring for Dempsey. Having a short camp for Wills is money left on the table.

Then of course there is the obvious, which is, Dempsey is the champ, the A-side, and he is the shot-caller, not Wills or promoters/investors who allegedly sent an offer for Montreal. If they really wanted to fund that fight they’d be flexible on the date, no other event would have been bigger than a Dempsey fight.

According to the matchmaker's statement, they were flexible on the date.


I'm very willing to show a source for that, but I'm tired of showing sources and evidence when you all show nothing. Maybe if you and Willie show the sources for the statements you've claimed here, I'll point you to it.

Still, I'd say my word here is pretty sound since I've repeatedly stepped up when wild, false accusations are hurled against me. Meanwhile, some of the others here don't answer the bell when called out. Mainly two posters. Pretty sure you know each other.

[travestyny]

Ehhh, Eff it. I won't keep the truth from the rest of the board just because other posters refuse to back up what they say. Here it is:


If you want to know the source, feel free to ask

Queue up some fresh excuses, boys.

[joseph5620]

Ehhh, Eff it. I won't keep the truth from the rest of the board just because other posters refuse to back up what they say. Here it is:


If you want to know the source, feel free to ask

Queue up some fresh excuses, boys.

Checkmate....

[Willie Pep 229]

The length of his training camps may also have had something to do with how often he fought exhibitions and how active he was between fights. Dempsey fought a lot of exhibitions between fights. If he went several months without even an exhibition he would need a longer camp to get his reflexes back and get his stamina back to top form. He would likely have to train differently for each opponent as well. Firpo wasn’t a fast-footed opponent. There is also money to be made during training camp. Gibbons made several thousand dollars selling tickets to his training and sparring for Dempsey. Having a short camp for Wills is money left on the table.

Then of course there is the obvious, which is, Dempsey is the champ, the A-side, and he is the shot-caller, not Wills or promoters/investors who allegedly sent an offer for Montreal. If they really wanted to fund that fight they’d be flexible on the date, no other event would have been bigger than a Dempsey fight.

IMO Flexibility on the date is irrelevant; Dempsey's complainant about training time was meaningless. Dempsey may have thought it was but Kearns was making the calls and had already made up his mind. No fight.

Kearns threw out the idea of a Montreal fight, and as soon a Rickard involved himself (disguised as Frank Flournoy,) Kearns goes silent and the fight falls apart.

Think about it! What does Frank Flournoy have to do with Wills? He runs MSG so why is speaking on behave of Wills? Because he represents NY not Wills.

He's not Wills' guy, he is Rickard's buddy not Wills' manager. So why would he have an opinion about what happens to Wills in Montreal? Unless he thinks he (actually Rickard) can get Kearns to sign papers.

Flournoy doesn't have that authority it's Rickard making his move through Flournoy.

This is the New York influence on Wills I am speaking of; Kearns wanted no part of New York because that meant Rickard would be involved.

I will go as far as suggesting Flournoy as a Wills' spoke person is really nothing more than Rickard pulling the strings.

I no longer have access to the NYT Time Machine so I can't pull up any sources, but I am pretty sure if you look a few days later than the above news article's date you will find Flournoy retracting the offer. Which again means nothing since Kearns was long ago, gone. The retraction was probably a face- saver in reply to Kearns sudden disinterest.

Montreal was all Kearns smoke, Dempsey was irrelevant to the decision made, it was just one more Kearns-Rickard parlay. Wills got used again. It was never going to happen even when Kearns proposed it. It was just another stall where Kearns had Rickard, Wills, and NYSAC all dancing to his tune, while he looked out west for a fight he wanted (one away from Rickard.) This should be so damn obvious if one wants to see it.

But karma caught up to Kearns, he got what he wanted (no Rickard) and it cost him dearly.

I repeat, if I said these things about Don King and Bob Arum woud everyone agree with me? Sure they would because we know how boxing works. But I show the same obvious BS negotiations between Rickard and Kearns and I hear the ridiculous argument that Dempsey was in charge. That is so conveniently naive.

[travestyny]

IMO Flexibility on the date is irrelevant; Dempsey's complainant about training time was meaningless. Dempsey may have thought it was but Kearns was making the calls and had already made up his mind. No fight.

Kearns threw out the idea of a Montreal fight, and as soon a Rickard involved himself (disguised as Frank Flournoy,) Kearns goes silent and the fight falls apart.

Think about it! What does Frank Flournoy have to do with Wills? He runs MSG so why is speaking on behave of Wills? Because he represents NY not Wills.

He's not Wills' guy, he is Rickard's buddy not Wills' manager. So why would he have an opinion about what happens to Wills in Montreal? Unless he thinks he (actually Rickard) can get Kearns to sign papers.

Flournoy doesn't have that authority it's Rickard making his move through Flournoy.

This is the New York influence on Wills I am speaking of; Kearns wanted no part of New York because that meant Rickard would be involved.

I will go as far as suggesting Flournoy as a Wills' spoke person is really nothing more than Rickard pulling the strings.

I no longer have access to the NYT Time Machine so I can't pull up any sources, but I am pretty sure if you look a few days later than the above news article's date you will find Flournoy retracting the offer. Which again means nothing since Kearns was long ago, gone. The retraction was probably a face- saver in reply to Kearns sudden disinterest.

Montreal was all Kearns smoke, Dempsey was irrelevant to the decision made, it was just one more Kearns-Rickard parlay. Wills got used again. It was never going to happen even when Kearns proposed it. It was just another stall where Kearns had Rickard, Wills, and NYSAC all dancing to his tune, while he looked out west for a fight he wanted (one away from Rickard.) This should be so damn obvious if one wants to see it.

But karma caught up to Kearns, he got what he wanted (no Rickard) and it cost him dearly.

I repeat, if I said these things about Don King and Bob Arum woud everyone agree with me? Sure they would because we know how boxing works. But I show the same obvious BS negotiations between Rickard and Kearns and I hear the ridiculous argument that Dempsey was in charge. That is so conveniently naive.

Absolute bull****.

Kearns was having meetings with Flournoy and Rickard about the fight. Flournoy represented Rickard. He was the matchmaker when Rickard was running Madison Square.

If Kearns didn't want to work with Rickard, he obviously wouldn't be wasting time meeting with Flournoy. It's not like it was a secret whom he was working for.

Dempsey made up an excuse and they called his bluff saying they can push back the date. That didn't change his mind. Kearns didn't want the fight for Dempsey and obviously neither did Dempsey or he would have taken it. Hiding behind Kearns, who works for him, doesn't absolve him. Every step of the way watching this unfold between these two fighters shows Dempsey clearly wanted no part of Wills.

[Willie Pep 229]

Checkmate....

Really, "checkmate" ? How come your susposed insightful self didn't ask whom Frank Flournoy worked for?

Not Wills! Unless ofcourse he held a silent percentage of Wiils' contract. But being promoter for MSG he probably shouldn't have.

You got duped once more by and un-cited, undated, edited news article.

And then you said something as ****** as '"checkmate."

[Willie Pep 229]

Absolute bull****.

Kearns was having meetings with Flournoy and Rickard about the fight. Flournoy represented Rickard. He was the matchmaker when Rickard was running Madison Square.

If Kearns didn't want to work with Rickard, he obviously wouldn't be wasting time meeting with Flournoy. It's not like it was a secret whom he was working for.

Dempsey made up an excuse and they called his bluff saying they can push back the date. That didn't change his mind. Kearns didn't want the fight for Dempsey and obviously neither did Dempsey or he would have taken it. Hiding behind Kearns, who works for him, doesn't absolve him. Every step of the way watching this unfold between these two fighters shows Dempsey clearly wanted no part of Wills.

So you now agree it was actually Kearns vs Rickard and not Dempsey vs. Wills.

Glad you finally caught up.