It's actually impossible to gain punching power through gaining weight and "putting on" muscle

[Slugfester]

Could you apply F = Mass x Acceleration to a meteor hitting the planet Earth.

I can't make the association because I have always (maybe incorrectly) assumed that an asteroid moving at great speed, slows (decelerates) as a meteor burning-up in the atmosphere.

But when they (TV Science level guys) talk about the impact a particular asteroid hitting us, the earth ending math always seems to be based on the asteroid's velocity to mass ratio. (So does my ignorance self think.)

Can you help?

Isn't losing velocity called negative acceleration?

[billeau2]

F=M x V (Force equals mass times velocity). What that means is that we have two variables to play with when generating power... We can increase/decrease our mass and/or we can increase/decrease our speed. In absolute terms more of both delivers more force but in reality the human body has certain mechanics governing the relationship of mass and velocity.

What Them Apples has seized upon is the fact that muscle mass, by itself does not add velocity. Now before throwing him to the dogs, lets look carefully at this fact. We do not throw our total mass at a person... Even if we could, the relationship of mass to downward force acceloration (gravity) is a trick question for many: Them Apples would be correct in asserting that if we talk purely of gravity, it is proportional to the weight of an object therefore a bowling ball and a feather, minus other forces, will accelorate towards Earth at the same rate.

Mass and its relationship to force, always has gravity pushing downward and to make this mass efficient one has to engage other forces, like cent****dial forces and the tendency of muscles to pull harder (with more force) when they are stronger. An analogy: If I compare the mongol compound Bow and its capability to fire an arrow, to a bigger bow and string... The only way the bigger bow fires with more force is if I can pull it back with more force... There is no advantage to just firing an arrow with a bigger bow.

Muscles pull... and bigger muscles only translate as more capable if they can pull harder and convert weight to potential energy. Them apples is correct as far as making the point that our ability to relax the muscles prior to impact, use efficient weight transfer and timing are more important variables than simply making muscles larger.

In a word: We have to be able to convert any mass into energy in order for bigger muscles to produce more force. Other things to consider: The bone structure and increasing it, making the bones harder will allow one to more efficiently use larger muscle groups. Muscles pulling on a larger skeletal structure will produce more mass than larger muscles pulling on a smaller bone structure.

[Slugfester]

Isn't losing velocity called negative acceleration?

Sorry, old bean, a little more complex than that. The + and - signs apply to directions, not magnitudes, of vectors.

It is a fight for me to even get to the place where I can see the question properly.

[crimsonfalcon07]

F=M x V (Force equals mass times velocity). .

F=ma, not MV. Acceleration, not velocity. You both are making the same mistake. Speed matters in terms of highest achievable speed, which is dictated by acceleration.

https://www.britannica.com/science/N...econd-law-F-ma

Acceleration is change in speed divided by time.

Mass times velocity is momentum.

https://www.britannica.com/science/momentum

This is high school freshman content.

Acceleration can be in positive or negative directions relative to the force vector. Strictly speaking, acceleration is just change of velocity divided by time for the change to happen. So losing velocity is acceleration, and the negative or positive just indicates the direction of force.

[ShoulderRoll]

Right.

Force = mass x acceleration, NOT mass x velocity. Basic physics.

If you want more force in your punches then you can get it by (1) increasing mass or (2) by increasing the acceleration of your punches or (3) by increasing BOTH mass AND acceleration.

[max baer]

maaaaaan this is intense and hard to understand or am i the only dullard here?

e=mc"2 is all i recall.

everyone has an equation till they get hit in the face. (iron nathan)
tyson.jpg

[billeau2]

F=ma, not MV. Acceleration, not velocity. You both are making the same mistake. Speed matters in terms of highest achievable speed, which is dictated by acceleration.

https://www.britannica.com/science/N...econd-law-F-ma

Acceleration is change in speed divided by time.

Mass times velocity is momentum.

https://www.britannica.com/science/momentum

This is high school freshman content.

Acceleration can be in positive or negative directions relative to the force vector. Strictly speaking, acceleration is just change of velocity divided by time for the change to happen. So losing velocity is acceleration, and the negative or positive just indicates the direction of force.

My bad... In trying to speak directly to a punch I used velocity instead of Acceleration. But the point stands... Just having mass does not make a greater punch... That mass has to be converted through proper mechanics.

It is not High school anything, it is using the wrong term inadvertantly... Lol. There is an entire post that clearly explains ther reference for the formula in the first place.

[billeau2]

Right.

Force = mass x acceleration, NOT mass x velocity. Basic physics.

If you want more force in your punches then you can get it by (1) increasing mass or (2) by increasing the acceleration of your punches or (3) by increasing BOTH mass AND acceleration.

Yes, and in my post I said as much... with the screw up of using Velocity instead of acceleration lol. It is true that you have two essential elements at play here: But then there is the conversion and this is where things get... difficult. Another analogy... if I give you a new Dodge Charger with a 420 HP engine... and then tell you "but the drive shaft fell out and I had to replace it with a curtain rod" you gonna have a few problems using them horses!

[crimsonfalcon07]

My bad... In trying to speak directly to a punch I used velocity instead of Acceleration. But the point stands... Just having mass does not make a greater punch... That mass has to be converted through proper mechanics.

It is not High school anything, it is using the wrong term inadvertantly... Lol. There is an entire post that clearly explains ther reference for the formula in the first place.

I think we're all in agreement that solely increasing mass isn't necessarily going to do much. Mass increases are relatively miniscule increases compared to addressing technical issues with maximizing kinetic chain, and often come at the expense of acceleration. There IS a way to leverage additional mass without really compromising your kinetic chain otherwise for short range punches, but that's really a separate topic. Most fighters will benefit far more from perfecting their technique or reducing tension than from putting on a few pounds of mass, especially in the short term. It takes at minimum 6 months to adjust to a significant increase in muscle, usually more than a year if you don't want it to affect your gas tank, which means a lot of endurance training with strength maintenance workouts. You can potentially cut that down prior to putting on the muscle mass by training with things like Omorpho weighted clothing, just to get some of the muscles more used to carrying extra weight, and doing high altitude training, but it's very tricky to keep the muscle mass on while maximizing endurance.

[them_apples]

Right.

Force = mass x acceleration, NOT mass x velocity. Basic physics.

If you want more force in your punches then you can get it by (1) increasing mass or (2) by increasing the acceleration of your punches or (3) by increasing BOTH mass AND acceleration.

Its honestly such a similar comparison. It doesn’t matter.

the last part No though

the mass isn’t directly converted to punching power. If the mass was on the wrist area and the muscles around it were strong enough to propel it then sure. But putting on weight all around your body isnt going to do much. Doesnt matter about what science says, look at what actually happens in the ring. Nobody EVER became a better puncher by bulking.

The weight you gain from mass is negated by being slower, less energy efficient and worse technique due to being heavier and thicker. This is why body builders can’t punch.

then factor in you cant pull the trigger as fast when you are heavier.