It's actually impossible to gain punching power through gaining weight and "putting on" muscle

[Slugfester]

The fifgers could compete anywhere if they were!

[QueensburyRules]

Yes, when fighters put on weight and punch harder, that's called steroids.

The guys that put on weight, unless they naturally grew - wouldn't have really gained power. Strength perhaps and punch resistance perhaps. It just doesn't make sense, if you really closely think about it. If your muscles got bigger through fiber tearing (the inputs don't move, fibers build over top), but your frame and everything else didn't, you won't punch harder because a lot of a punch is based on velocity, technique and the weight of the Bone/Forearm/ fist. YOU MAY push harder, but you won't punch harder. You won't start knocking guys out. Who did?

Name a single case where the fighter wasn't obviously on steroids and naturally put on weight, and started hitting harder.

Foreman? (lost power as he got heavier) Norton? (lost power as he got heavier) Duran? same thing. At the very least they would be hitting the same.

- - Wait, you got a twin bro on your BS account.

You was sayin' everyone on PEDs.

Foreman's post retirement career was about the same KO% as his first.

Your twin making you look like a flop...

[Slugfester]

Makes you wonder why fighters would bother to put on weight at all.

[Willie Pep 229]

Makes you wonder why fighters would bother to put on weight at all.

Billy Conn is the only LHW I know of who chose not to bulk-up for his HW matches and made a point of mentioning it. He chose his speed over any extra power ten more pounds might have brought him.

P.S. Of course it was Conn's remark that gave us the famous Louis reply, " He can run . . ."

[them_apples]

Makes you wonder why fighters would bother to put on weight at all.

well, for the most part - they try not to. When a fighter goes up in weight it's because of a few things:

poor training habits
Chasing money in a different weight class

Today they use steroids, which allows them to at least put "muscle on" fast as weight, in stead of just pure fat. It's still dead weight at the end of the day.

And once again in this scenario, we can see the fighter does not improve physically - although they may become more seasoned and skillful.

[them_apples]

Billy Conn is the only LHW I know of who chose not to bulk-up for his HW matches and made a point of mentioning it. He chose his speed over any extra power ten more pounds might have brought him.

P.S. Of course it was Conn's remark that gave us the famous Louis reply, " He can run . . ."

the idea is you only minimally bulk. Your best asset is your speed, but your worst asset is the weight you give up. You can be pushed around easier and knocked off your feet.

Keeping in mind, this doesn't mean weight and size means nothing, no - it means stay within your perfect weight class. which would be a person, fit and toned with little to no weight on them. They would be tall, have stamina (heart is matched to supply this body weight) and very strong p4p - since non of the muscle is "put on" rather it was already there just strengthened.

When a person bulks up, its the same concept of a body builder or obese person walking up stairs, they are out of breath because the heart has to supply blood to all this mass.

This is more like common sense fitness, something long lost.


If we notice, heavyweights and lightweights have similar proportions in the older days, but today - their heads and hands look so small because they are carrying so much weight on their frames.

Joe Louis, Ali, Foreman, Frazier - they all had such big heads and hands because they were 250+ men who trained down to low 200's

[Rockin']

As for actual knockout punches, most are simply the ones that were never seen coming in. The eyes never see them, therefore the brain does not pick up that it's coming in and does not prepare the body for the impact. Thus the brain is shocked and it's response is to just turn everything off and the fighter falls to the canvas.

Sure, you will see a fighter watch it coming in and dropping him. But those occurrences are while a fighter was stunned, his mind could be anywhere.

In my opinion James had frickin' great eyes, moving up and throwing in the Heavies proves that. .................Rockin'

[them_apples]

As for actual knockout punches, most are simply the ones that were never seen coming in. The eyes never see them, therefore the brain does not pick up that it's coming in and does not prepare the body for the impact. Thus the brain is shocked and it's response is to just turn everything off and the fighter falls to the canvas.

Sure, you will see a fighter watch it coming in and dropping him. But those occurrences are while a fighter was stunned, his mind could be anywhere.

In my opinion James had frickin' great eyes, moving up and throwing in the Heavies proves that. .................Rockin'

Exactly. This is what defines a knockout artist. Setting up a shot they don’t see coming. When people speak of punching power it should revolve around what the fighter is capable of landing effectively.

Duran for example almost made Hagler feather fisted, not that hagler was featherfisted - but Durans ability to ride with blows ensured they wouldn’t land effectively and forced hagler to resort to shorter arm punches inside. With his long arms he wasn’t a devastating inside puncher. Give him space though and he could really wack you.

[crimsonfalcon07]

2). A punch is about velocity and weight of the object (fist/wrist). You can't make your muscles bigger to improve this. It doesn't work like that.

You got your physics slightly wrong here, although your conclusion is mostly correct.

It's ACCELERATION and MASS, not velocity and weight.

Basically, the more of your body mass you can get involved in the punch (weight transfer), and the faster you get it in motion, the more force you'll have in your punch in an absolute sense.

When you hit the target, things like force transfer and penetration matter. If you have poor structure, the equal and opposite reaction will mean a portion of your power will get absorbed by your own body instead of transferring to the opponent. The more surface area you hit with, the less penetration you'll have, and the less internal damage will happen. Plus, you have to deal with counter forces, eg, if the opponent sees the punch coming they'll be able to brace for it, and you'll have less effect from the same force.

You also have to worry about being defensively responsible. More weight transfer done wrong can also take you out of position and make it harder to avoid the counter shot.

More mass CAN absolutely help you punch harder, but it's also more exhausting. Muscles eat oxygen like crazy, so they will have a disproportionate effect on your gas tank. And you still have to recover your position from the punch, and that will take correspondingly more energy too. And, even though you get more mass to move around, it can come at the expense of acceleration if it's done wrong.

So for most fighters, it's not really going to be worth it, especially in the short term, because the rest of their performance will suffer, and then long term power suffers too, so they'll be less likely to get knockouts the later it gets in the fight.

In a technical sense, you absolutely can get more power from more (muscle) mass, but you need to train it extensively to counter the loss of endurance, and the overwhelming majority of fighters will be able to get more power more effectively from learning how to properly engage the kinetic chain to maximize weight transfer and acceleration than in adding a relatively tiny amount of mass.

-edit- One more point. You talk about fist/wrist, but if a fighter is tense farther up in the kinetic chain, such as in the shoulders, the energy generated needs to push substantially more mass, at the expense of force and acceleration. The most power, as you know, comes when the body is relaxed throughout the entire kinetic chain, and only tenses at the moment of impact. That's another common area for improvement.

[Slugfester]

This is debateable. And I can explain.

a knockout punch HAS to have a degree of explosivety. Its not governed by weight.

a knockout punch has to delivery enough force to cause the whiplash effect, since the target its hitting, the human body will automatically reflexively brace itself to absorb damage. It wonÃÂâÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂt have time to do this if the shot is fast and sharp enough, hitting a ÃÂâÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂsoft targetÃÂâÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂ.

getting heavier often will turn punches into ÃÂâÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂpushesÃÂâÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂ, a push while carrying more weight, simply moves the fighter but does less damage.

this is also why ÃÂâÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂmeasuringÃÂâÃÂÃÂÃÂàpunching power is also a tricky subject.

This is why Joe Frazier hits harder than chris areolla.

lastly your technique will even suffer, when the arms are unable to tuck in close and the shoulders hang relaxed. This becomes harder, and more oxygen is consumed.

Ken Norton of 205 hits harder than Norton of 225.

205 Holyfield âÃÂÃÂhits harderâÃÂàthan 225 lb Holyfield

chopping wood or swinging a golfclub is similar to punching technique in regards to how the muscles should contract. This is another sport / job where having big muscles wonât increase your power. It often always appears ânaturalâ. Once again, weight plays little role in the actual procedure

225 lb Foreman hits harder than 260 lb Foreman

What is all this bull with he capital A?