Vitali Klitschko, the last great heavyweight

[IronDanHamza]

It's just not a very important point in anyone's else's mind. PED asterisk? Sure, its cheating. Disqualify outright everything a fighter has accomplished? No. Not IMO anyway, and I have testified in person before 3 seperate state government boards on the topic over the past 11 years. It's OK to move on, we've all done it.

I've got no idea what you're talking about.

I couldn't care less what's important in your mind, or anyone else's mind. I can ask whatever I want to.

The poster made a claim about PED use, and it disqualifying them from ATG status. I then asked a SIMPLE, Yes or no question multiple times which has still failed to have been answered.

[markusmod]

I've got no idea what you're talking about.

I couldn't care less what's important in your mind, or anyone else's mind. I can ask whatever I want to.

The poster made a claim about PED use, and it disqualifying them from ATG status. I then asked a SIMPLE, Yes or no question multiple times which has still failed to have been answered.

Iron Dan has a point.

[kara]

- - I'd rate them #2 A &B...

Heavywt division still in shock from the abrupt emasculation of the US Empire.
434a2231ada1450ff11122fd5e7dd5ef.jpg

They needed another brother

[JAB5239]

Nothing great about his weak resume and need for Wlad to do all the dirty work in the division. Wlad a much greater fighter when looking at the pictures entirety.

[Willow The Wisp]

Nothing great about his weak resume and need for Wlad to do all the dirty work in the division. Wlad a much greater fighter when looking at the pictures entirety.

You're correct. Others might assume that Vitali was somehow a better fighter. But they are simply projecting. We do know that both men were very, very good- The best of the post Lewis/Pre Fury span of time and a long distance between them and # 3.
That ought to be enough. Even their mother won't choose between them. Certainly, one Klitschko had stronger line items than the other, and vice-versa. But Vitali better by projecting how HE might have handled his younger brother's much heavier workload???

Maybe he would do better.
Maybe Ike Ibeabuchi would.
Maybe Baby Joe Mesi would.
Lee Canalito, Kevin Babineaux......We never saw their limits.
Projecting is fun, makes neat-O threads, but putting in the work is how reality is achieved.

Wladimir is the far more accomplished, and therefore is the better campaigner. In reality.

[Dr. Z]

Nothing great about his weak resume and need for Wlad to do all the dirty work in the division. Wlad a much greater fighter when looking at the pictures entirety.

Can you name 15 better heavyweights in terms of resume? I don't think you can. The resume is not weak. I give you 130 years worth of history. A long time. Your lack of names will prove the resume isn't weak. This link might help you.

https://www.boxingscene.com/forums/b...vyweight/page7

[JAB5239]

Can you name 15 better heavyweights in terms of resume? I don't think you can. The resume is not weak. I give you 130 years worth of history. A long time. Your lack of names will prove the resume isn't weak. This link might help you.

https://www.boxingscene.com/forums/b...vyweight/page7

Jim Jeffries
Jack Dempsey
Jack Sharkey
harry Wills
Sam Langford
Max Schmeling
Joe Louis
Ezzard Charles
Joe Walcott
Rocky Marciano
Floyd Patterson
Sonny Liston
Muhammad Ali
Joe Frazier
George Foreman
Ken Norton
Larry Holmes
Mike Tyson
Evander Holyfield
Rid**** Bowe
Lennox Lewis
Wlad Klitschko
Tyson Fury

There's 20 off the top of my head. Biggest difference between them and Vits.....they all beat the precieved best fighter in the division, Number one contender or the legitimate champion. When ypu try and pick holes in this ill point out the supporting contenders on their resume and who they beat. This list doesn't even take into consideration contenders who never won a title with better resumes.

[Dr. Z]

Jim Jeffries
Jack Dempsey
Jack Sharkey
harry Wills
Sam Langford
Max Schmeling
Joe Louis
Ezzard Charles
Joe Walcott
Rocky Marciano
Floyd Patterson
Sonny Liston
Muhammad Ali
Joe Frazier
George Foreman
Ken Norton
Larry Holmes
Mike Tyson
Evander Holyfield
Rid**** Bowe
Lennox Lewis
Wlad Klitschko
Tyson Fury

There's 20 off the top of my head. Biggest difference between them and Vits.....they all beat the precieved best fighter in the division, Number one contender or the legitimate champion. When ypu try and pick holes in this ill point out the supporting contenders on their resume and who they beat. This list doesn't even take into consideration contenders who never won a title with better resumes.

Your right, you can pick holes in just about anyone's resume. Many fighters that you listed lost a lot of matches to non-all time greats, men who were far less than Lennox Lewis who by the way offer a re-match to Vitali, yet he balked in the end. I could list everyones bad performances... all if them. What would Lewis resume look like if McCall and Rhaman controlled by Don King didn't offer Lewis a re-match?

You come off as a hater unwilling to hold everyone to the same standard. We all know he was up 8-3 and 6-4 on points in fights that the lost due to a torn shoulder and a doctor order to halt a match on cuts. You continue to hold that against him, but did you know that Sugar Ray Robinson retired on his stool and Harry Greb quickly retired in a fight when he was injured? Suddenly Vitali doesn't look so bad next to boxing pound per pound all time greats! Probably not, but it is true.

And please Fury barely has a resume now. It's not greater than Vitali's. Maybe he'll have a better one when he retires. Maybe it will be worse.

[Willow The Wisp]

Your right, you can pick holes in just about anyone's resume. Many fighters that you listed lost a lot of matches to non-all time greats, men who were far less than Lennox Lewis who by the way offer a re-match to Vitali, yet he balked in the end. I could list everyones bad performances... all if them. What would Lewis resume look like if McCall and Rhaman controlled by Don King didn't offer Lewis a re-match?

You come off as a hater unwilling to hold everyone to the same standard. We all know he was up 8-3 and 6-4 on points in fights that the lost due to a torn shoulder and a doctor order to halt a match on cuts. You continue to hold that against him, but did you know that Sugar Ray Robinson retired on his stool and Harry Greb quickly retired in a fight when he was injured? Suddenly Vitali doesn't look so bad next to boxing pound per pound all time greats! Probably not, but it is true.

And please Fury barely has a resume now. It's not greater than Vitali's. Maybe he'll have a better one when he retires. Maybe it will be worse.

It's impassioned, your case. Even compelling. I'd framed Vitali in the thread appropreately, I thought at least. It's a clean resume. One of the most clean anyone ever had who lived so close to the top of his division so long. And that is it's strength. Its a good kind of strength. A unique kind if strength. But does the resume lack anything at all, in your esteemed opinion?
Not a show stopper if it does lack something, right? Most of them lack something if you burrow enough right?

How about extended tenure as the worlds no. 1?
How about a clean win over his eras #2?
Maybe the ability to match his own brother's list of quality scalps would make the difference?
Maybe a win over his brother, or one of the greats of the eras that bookend his, such as a W in his challenge to aging Lennox Lewis?

The rub here, in short, and taking say, a comparison to Tyson Fury, is that it takes a boatload of Herbie Hides, Larry Donalds, Samuel Peters to equal one Deontay Wilder. Quantitatively, Fury has passed Vitali by a long time ago.

Humble oneself to advance, or remain. Its a free counry. (***Being provoactive and a little arrogant here, Lol***).

[billeau2]

I literally asked an incredibly simple, yes or no question and not a single time was it answered, instead it was evaded and tapped danced around.

It's right there above. This is a question about PED use and keeping the same standard. Very simple

And saying Toney's deserves an asterisk is not answering the question either is it, you brain dead cunt.

No! you are just thick as a brick

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9bk...ateThePatriots