Vitali Klitschko, the last great heavyweight

[QueensburyRules]

yeah his resume isn't amazing, I think he beats a lot of fighters though. I'll say this as well, Vitali certainly doesn't looked juiced like many guys today do. Canelo is a straight roid head I'm not sure how he even passes drug tests. he's 100% on gear

- - Sorry to hear about your Viagra addiction. There's counseling help that might help you.

[ShoulderRoll]

You said PED use disqualifies you from being an ATG.

Do you stand on that opinion or not?

My opinion is I don't care but it's you that brought PED's into this conversation regarding Vitali.

Yes, I stand on that opinion. I do care about PED use and feel it matters when ranking ATGs.

[IronDanHamza]

Yes, I stand on that opinion. I do care about PED use and feel it matters when ranking ATGs.

Right.

So James Toney is not an ATG to you then right?

[ShoulderRoll]

Right.

So James Toney is not an ATG to you then right?

Not if he was on PEDs.

[JT1]

I agree that Hill is borderline to make the hall of fame and Mancini shouldn't be in it. But neither man was a 1st ballot guy, let alone lead their hall of fame class in votes as Vitali did!

There is a difference in the silly stuff us boxing guys talk about. As of Greg Page you'll have to ask John Thomas what that is about.

I think it might be best if you steer clear of me. I've been back posting here 5 minutes and you are leaving weird messages on my board, quoting me with strange messages tacked on and being plain weird. It's mildly unsettling.

Thanks in advance.

[IronDanHamza]

Not if he was on PEDs.

It's a yes or no question, I'm struggling as to why you won't answer?

You know he was on PED's. That's not something that's up for debate that's an objective fact.

So, he's not an ATG to you, right?

[billeau2]

You said PED use disqualifies you from being an ATG.

Do you stand on that opinion or not?

My opinion is I don't care but it's you that brought PED's into this conversation regarding Vitali.

Dude... Another James Toney haterade episode? Lol. Shoulder answered you every time, but as we know you are thick as a brick... and when Toney is involved!!!

[billeau2]

Yes, I stand on that opinion. I do care about PED use and feel it matters when ranking ATGs.

He will not stop... Ill bet my last nickel on it... You even conceded the point about ATG and he is still whining away, trying to "get ya!" lol.

[IronDanHamza]

Dude... Another James Toney haterade episode? Lol. Shoulder answered you every time, but as we know you are thick as a brick... and when Toney is involved!!!

The question is regarding PED use and keeping the same standard. If one person is disqualified from being an ATG for PED use then everyone who tested positive for PED use should be.

And the question was answered where?

Oh yeah, no where you fucking idiot.

[billeau2]

I think the Lewis fight was seminal for Vitalie. when he quit against Byrd, I did not hold it against any legacy that might have come fourth subsequent to that fight. When he fought lewis, lewis was obviously in worse shape. When I say this, I am not saying so to comment on their training leading up to the fight, yada yada... Point is Lewis was looking like he had to dig very deep. Vitalie had a corner that understood this situation and Vitalie understood this situation. Marciano had been in fights where he was losing and had his opponent vulnerable. he found a way to take the opponent out. Great finishers like Liston and Frazier would not cut bait once you were on the hook...

Vitalie backed off enough to initially let Lewis back in, and eventually enough to allow Lewis to find a way, the way great fighters do (see above), and stop Vitalie. To me that tells me the limits of Vitalie. bad resumes happen a lot in the heavyweight division, and Vitalie's may have been one of the worse, The Byrd fight could have been like Robinson's Joey Maxime moment... But when he had a chance to show greatness, to take risks, he failed again. I don't see him doing well against great heavyweights that were just tougher, and willing to take the risks that needed to be taken, and/or could finish when they had an opponent in trouble. I do think he was the better between him and Vlad.