Vitali Klitschko, the last great heavyweight

[Ivich]

As already said, this is not about opinion. It's factual... but apparently no one can come up with a definitive answer, to how many world ranked boxers Vitali beat (when they were in the Top-10) during his career.

Does it really matter? No, not in the grand scheme of things, but when someone makes a factual statement, I want to know, if it's completely made up - or there could be something to it. And in this case we must first determine, if the number for Vitali is 6, 7 or maybe even 8. Which, strangely, in itself seems to be a very difficult task!

Now the men with a question mark are Danny Williams and the two Johnsons, Kevin and Kirk. Surely someone must be able to tell us, if any (or all) of these 3 were Top-10 ranked fighters, at the time Vitali beat them?

And, come to think about it... how about Lamon Brewster? At the end of 2006 he was ranked #7 by The Ring - before he, in his very next fight, lost to Vitali in July 2007. Had he been dropped from the world rankings in the meantime? Worth checking out, I think!

Vitali fought Kevin Johnson on 12th Dec 2009 Johnson was unranked in the end of year ratings I find it highly unlikely that Jjohnson was ranked in 2009 ,he had never beaten a ranked fighter.

Vitali fought Williams on11 th Dec 2004,again I do not find it plausible that Williams was ranked.
on 6th Dec 2003and, like the other two is not featured in the end of year ratings.

[Ivich]

What is this forum about, the history of prize fighting or proving who knows more information?

No opinion can be proven right or wrong and nothing will be effected or changed because of what is said here.

Sure once in a while we have to call eachother out, but nothing should go beyond two or three replies each. When the same argument hits 19 pages and then moves to two more threads, we're doing it wrong.

For me its about proving a poster is a compulsive liar!
You don't actually believe this is the first forum he has done this on do you?
This and the Johnson and Louis Smear threads are lifted directly from his posts on another forum,He got banned there for them and now he is here polluting this forum! Wake up and smell the coffee!FFS!

[Ivich]

I believe Dr. Z's original challenge was for someone to find 10 men, who beat more Top-10 (The Ring) ranked (at the time they fought) HWs, than Vitali did. Not an "opinion" question, but a factual one... so how hard can it be?

And yet, we don't even seem to be able to agree on the number for Vitali! We have established, that he beat Arreola, Adamek, Gomez, Peter, Sanders, when they were world ranked. That's 5 for sure... but I'm not 100% certain about guys like Danny Williams, Kevin Johnson and Kirk Johnson. If someone has access to Ring's monthly ratings, can we have a ruling on this, please.

Here is his challenge.

"Shown me 10 heavyweights with more wins vs. ranked ring magazine wins when they fought them."

[Bundana]

Vitali fought Kevin Johnson on 12th Dec 2009 Johnson was unranked in the end of year ratings I find it highly unlikely that Jjohnson was ranked in 2009 ,he had never beaten a ranked fighter.

Vitali fought Williams on11 th Dec 2004,again I do not find it plausible that Williams was ranked.
on 6th Dec 2003and, like the other two is not featured in the end of year ratings.

All three lost to Vitali in December of those years - so it stands to reason, that they would not be featured in the end-of-year ratings. The question is if they were rated going into their fights with Vitali. I don't know, what the answer is to this - but I would like to find out!

In post #143 of this thread, Dr. Z specifically claims that Williams was ranked 9th and Kevin Johnson 10th, going into the Vitali fights. Can this claim be validated - or is it something he makes up?

[Ivich]

All three lost to Vitali in December of those years - so it stands to reason, that they would not be featured in the end-of-year ratings. The question is if they were rated going into their fights with Vitali. I don't know, what the answer is to this - but I would like to find out!

In post #143 of this thread, Dr. Z specifically claims that Williams was ranked 9th and Kevin Johnson 10th, going into the Vitali fights. Can this claim be validated - or is it something he makes up?

What do you think? lol

[Bundana]

Here is his challenge.

"Shown me 10 heavyweights with more wins vs. ranked ring magazine wins when they fought them."

I believe the original challenge (#78) was: "You will struggle to name 10 fighters who beat more ring magazine rated guys at heavyweight."

[Bundana]

What do you think? lol

I don't know - hence my question.

[Willie Pep 229]

Who owns the copyrights to The Ring Magazine? Why haven't they archived the material? It may become lost.

[IronDanHamza]

So I have every Ring Magazine issue from 2009 and I have gone back and checked the rankings and Kevin Johnson was in fact ranked #10 in the December issue.

He wasn’t in the November issue so not quite sure why he was in December but the fact is he was ranked #10 when he fought Vitali according to The Ring magazine.

Can provide pictures if needed.

[Willow The Wisp]

For me its about proving a poster is a compulsive liar!
You don't actually believe this is the first forum he has done this on do you?
This and the Johnson and Louis Smear threads are lifted directly from his posts on another forum,He got banned there for them and now he is here polluting this forum! Wake up and smell the coffee!FFS!

We all gathered that for you, it was about that, lol.

I have no skin in the game, uniquely qualified therefore to say outright that Vitali was a great heavyweight and is a great patriot and a fine man; but he was neither the best heavyweight of all time nor even the best heavyweight of his own era. In fact, he wasn’t even the best heavyweight that his mother gave birth to. Regardless of how many Ring Ranked Pretenders he beat.

....and while I'm handing out truth bombs, I encourage all the good posters here to cut arguments loose BEFORE getting banned.