Vitali Klitschko, the last great heavyweight

[Silence]

And what makes you think Fury would beat Lewis.

His size, awkwardness, slickness and most importantly his completeness. Fury has everything.

[ShoulderRoll]

What does PED use disqualify a fighter from in these discussions, to you?

ATG status.

Anyone that used PEDs can't be put on the same level as greats who we know were clean.

[IronDanHamza]

ATG status.

Anyone that used PEDs can't be put on the same level as greats who we know were clean.

Interesting, so James Toney isn't an ATG to you?

[ShoulderRoll]

Interesting, so James Toney isn't an ATG to you?

As much as I enjoyed watching Toney fight you do have to question what role steroids played in his success.

[max baer]

I would say he was in route to taking Lewis's title that night. Maybe even stopping him late.

Accepting that his shoulder was actually hurt that night against Byrd, he has only lost due to injury. At the time of the stoppages he was winning on the score cards in both fights.

IDK has he ever been KD?

spot on willie. he missed out on being the goat i reckon he was better then his little brother

[IronDanHamza]

As much as I enjoyed watching Toney fight you do have to question what role steroids played in his success.

So he's not an ATG to you then?

[ShoulderRoll]

So he's not an ATG to you then?

How can you determine the true level of his talent if he cheated? Was he only average naturally, and the steroids significantly elevated him? Or was he really good and the steroids only mildly boosted him? Did he use for his entire career or only for a specific period of it?

I don't think anyone can answer that definitively.

So while he was one of the top fighters of his time there has to be a huge asterisk next to his accomplishments.

[BKM-]

His size, awkwardness, slickness and most importantly his completeness. Fury has everything.

I could see it. I could also see Lewis dropping him. That right uppercut on the inside was lethal. And his 1-2 could also be a disaster for Fury, who went down many times against Wilder a much less refined boxer.

[IronDanHamza]

How can you determine the true level of his talent if he cheated? Was he only average naturally, and the steroids significantly elevated him? Or was he really good and the steroids only mildly boosted him? Did he use for his entire career or only for a specific period of it?

I don't think anyone can answer that definitively.

So while he was one of the top fighters of his time there has to be a huge asterisk next to his accomplishments.

...So he's not an ATG to you, then?

[ShoulderRoll]

...So he's not an ATG to you, then?

He may or may not be. He's tainted by his steroid use.

Certainly he shouldn't be put in the same category as ATGs who performed while being clean, in my opinion.